Keresés

Részletes keresés

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Próbálok levadászni a netről képrombolást érintő írásokat, a tanulmányban olvasható Niceai Theophanész a XIV. században élt. 

 

A képrombolás  máig aktuális téma az orthodox egyházban. (pl. Koszovóban is megtörtént, nem is olyan régen...)

 

 ( Majd megpróbálok utána járni a témának egy orthodox ismerősömnél is.)

 

http://www.atanaz.hu/foisk/athanaz/atan03/ata3_8.htm

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Előzmény: spiroslyra (55)
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Folytatom A bizánci irodalom kistükre c. könyv alapján a jegyzetelést:

 

Theophanész (IX. sz.)

 

Az orthodox egyház a Hitvalló (Confessor) címet adományozta neki, és besorolta szentjei közé.

  Miként maga Theophanész tájékoztat bennünket, Khronographiá-ját barátja, Georgiosz Szünkellosz útmutatása szerint írta. Geórgiosz Szünkellosz (meghalt a IX. század elején) volt a szerzője a Khonographiai válogatás (Eklogé Khronographiasz)

című műnek, amelyik a "világ teremtésénél" kezdi az események elbeszélését, és egészen Diocletianus uralkodásának kezdetéig jut el (284). Theophanész pontosan ennél az évnél kezdi művét, és egészen I. Mikhaél (az úgynevezett Rangave) bukásáig (813) jut el. A történelmi eseményket - Szünkellosz példáját követve - ő is időrendi sorrendben meséli el.

  Műve megírásakor forrásként használta fel a IV., V. és VI. század történészeinek munkásságát. Ami viszont a VII. és VIII. századot illeti, minden valószínűség szerint néhány, fenn nem maradt forrást használt fel. Feltételezhető, hogy olyan alkotásokat is használt forrásként, amelyeket a képrombolók írtak. A VIII. század végének és a IX. század elejének eseményeiről személyes ismeretei szolgáltak forrásul. Theophanész - fanatikus orthodox és képtisztelő lévén- erősen elfogult, és tele van előítéletekkel. Művét a szerzeteseknek, valamint ahozzá hasonló gondolkodásmódú embereknek szánta. Nem rendelkezik sem különösebb képzettséggel, sem történelemérzékkel.

  Műve azonban pótolhatatlan értékű, mégpedig azért, mert:

 

a. forrásként használta fel a VII. és VII. század ismeretlen történelmi műveit

 

b. mivel a képrombolás korszakával egyidőben élt, annak - noha elfogult vele szemben - legfőbb forrását jelenti

 

c. művének népies stílusa és népies szerkesztése összekapcsolja Malalasz Khronographiá-jának hagyományával. Ő jelenti a példát a következő évszázadok számára a khnographiára és annak népies stílusára vonatkozóan - és ezáltal a legmélyebb hatást gyakorolta az egész bizánci történetírásra. Még a IX. században lefordítják latinra. Ettől kezdve jelentős hatást gyakorolt nyugaton is; másrészt jelentős befolyást fejt ki az ószláv irodalom egészére.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.15 0 0 62
ΑΝΝΑ ΚΟΜΝΗΝΗ

ΑΛΕΧΙΑΣ

ΣΥΝΤΑΓΜΑ ΣΥΝ ΤΕῼ
ΤΩΝ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΝ ΑΝΑΚΤΑ
ΚΥΡΟΝ ΑΛΕΞΙΟΝ ΤΟΝ ΚΟΜΝΗΝΟΝ
ΠΟΝΗΘΕΝ
ΠΑΡΑ ΤΗΣ ΘΥΓΑΤΡΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΚΥΡΙΑΣ ΑΝΝΗΣ
ΤΗΣ ΠΟΡΦΥΡΟΓΕΝΝΗΤΟΥ ΤΗΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ
Ο ΚΑΙ ΕΚΛΗΘΗ ΑΛΕΞΙΑΣ ΠΑΡ`ΑΥΤΗΣ.

Α. Ῥέων ὁ χρόνος ἀκάθεκτα καὶ ἀεί τι κινούμενος παρασύρει καὶ παραφέρει πάντα τὰ ἐν γενέσει καὶ ἐς βυθὸν ἀφανείας καταποντοῖ ὅπου μὲν οὐκ ἄξια λόγου πράγματα, ὅπου δὲ μεγάλα τε καὶ ἄξια μνήμης, καὶ τά τε ἄδηλα φύων κατὰ τὴν τραγῳδίαν καὶ τὰ φανέντα ἀποκρυπτόμενος. [...]

ANNA KOMNÉNÉ

ALEXIASZ

KÖNYV ISTEN SEGEDELMÉVEL
A MAGASSÁGOS ALEXIOSZ KOMNÉNOSZ CSÁSZÁR TETTEIRŐL,
FÁRADTSÁGOS MUNKA
LÁNYÁTÓL, AZ Ő HERCEGNŐJÉTŐL,
BÍBORBANSZÜLETETT ANNA CSÁSZÁRNŐTŐL,
ÉS AZ ALEXIASZ ELMONDATOTT TŐLE [ti. Annától].

I. Folyván az idő ellenállhatatlan és örökké mozgó valami, elragad és elvisz minden teremtett dolgot, és a homály mélységébe taszít, itt nem jelentősek az elbeszélések tárgyai, ott viszont nagyok, és megvan az emlék értéke is; és amely az ismeretlen dolgokat felhozza, a tragédia szerint, a láthatókat meg elrejti. [...]
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.15 0 0 61

''Passuth László gyönyörű, bár a szöveghűséggel itt-ott hadilábon álló fordításában...''
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# Komnena Anna (Szerző)
Alexias, , , Bp, (1943) 128 p.
Tárgykör: V.1.a Bizánciak
Rekordazonosító: Bo03100900



# PASSUTH LÁSZLÓ (Fordító)
Alexias, , , Bp, (1943) 128 p.
Tárgykör: V.1.a Bizánciak
Rekordazonosító: Bo03100900





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# GYÓNI MÁTYÁS (Szerző)
A paristrioni «államalakulatok» ethnikai jellege. Archaizáló népnév és ethnikai valóság Anna Komnene Alexiasában, M. Tört.-tud. int. Évk., , , (1942) 89-177 p.
Tárgykör: V.1.a Bizánciak
Rekordazonosító: Bo03101000



# GYÓNI MÁTYÁS (Szerző)
Zur Frage der rumänischen Staatsbildungen im XI. Jahrhundert in Paristrion. Archaisierende Volksnamen und ethnische Wirklichkeit in der «Alexias» von Anna Komnene, AECO, , , 9 (1943) 83-188 p.
Tárgykör: V.1.a Bizánciak
Rekordazonosító: Bo03101100



# GYÓNI MÁTYÁS (Szerző)
Egy vlách falu neve Anna Komnene Alexiasában, EPhK, , , 71 (1948) 22-30 p.
Tárgykör: V.1.a Bizánciak
Rekordazonosító: Bo03101200
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Book Anna of Byzantium /
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48. Book Alexiad : Anadolu'da ve Balkan Yarımadasıʼnda İmparator Alexios Komnenos dönemi'nin tarihi Malazgi̇rt'i̇n sonrası /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Umar, Bilge.
Publication: İstanbul : İnkilâp Ki̇tabevi̇, 1996
Document: Turkish : Book
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49. Book Alexaide : règne de l'empereur Alexis I. Comnène (1081-1118) /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: Paris : Société d'Edition les Belles Lettres, 1967-1976
Document: French : Book
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50. Book Annae Comnenae, Porphyrogenitae, Alexias /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Reifferscheid, August,
Publication: Lipsiae : Teubneri, 1989, 1884
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
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51. Book [Alexiados libri VIII de rebus a patre gestis ...
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Alexius; Hoeschel, David,
Publication: Augustae Vindelicorum, Ad insigne Pinus, 1610
Document: Latin : Book
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52. Book Histoire de l'empereur Alexis.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: Paris, 1685
Document: French : Book
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53. Book Euthymiou tou Zigavenou ta heuriskomena panta = Euthymii Zigabeni opera quæ reperiri potuerunt omnia /
Author: Euthymius, Zigabenus.; Migne, J.-P; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: [Paris] : apud J.-P. Migne editorem, 1864-1865
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
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54. Book Ta heuriskomena panta /
Author: Euthymius, Zigabenus.; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: Lutetiæ Parisiorum : J.-P. Migne, 1864-1898
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
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55. Book Sokrashchennoe skazanie o di︠e︡lakh t︠s︡ari︠a︡ Aleksi︠e︡i︠a︡ Komnina.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: S. Peterburg [V Tip. Departamenta Ydi︠e︡lov] 1895-
Document: Russian : Book
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56. Book Alexias / Annēs Komnēnēs ; metaphrasis /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: [Athens] : Hellēnikos Ekdotikos Organismos, 1970s
Document: Greek, Modern [1453- ] : Book
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57. Book Alexias,
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Reifferscheid, August,
Publication: Lipsiae, B.G. Teubner, 1884
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book : Microform Microform
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58. Book Alexiade : Oversat fra græsk og forsynet med historisk indledning og anmærkninger af O.A. Hovgård, udgivet ved H.H. Lefolii.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: København : Karl Schønberg, 1879-1880
Document: Danish : Book
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59. Book Alexias /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Kōnstantopoulos, Nik. K.
Publication: En Athēnais : Epistēmonikē Hetaireia tōn Hellēnikōn Grammatōn "Papyros", 1938
Document: Greek, Modern [1453- ] : Book
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60. Book The Alexiad of the Princess Anna Comnena : being a history of the reign of her father, Alexius I, Emperor of the Romans, 1081-1118 A.D. /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Dawes, Elizabeth A. S.
Publication: London : K. Paul, Trench, Trubner, 1976, 1928
Document: English : Book
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61. Book Alexiados libri VIII. ab Anna Comnena de rebvs a patre gestis scripti. Nunc primùm à Dauide Hœschelio ... editi.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Hoeschel, David,
Publication: Avgvstae Vindelicorvm : Ad insigne Pinus ..., 1610
Document: Latin : Book
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62. Book Alexiade (règne de l'empereur Alexıs ı Comnène, 1081-1118) : Texte établi et traduit par Bernard Leib.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: Paris, : Société d'édition "Les Belles lettres," 1937-1976
Document: French : Book
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63. Book Vizantiiskie istoriki : perevedennye s grecheskago pri S.Peterburgskoi Dukhovnoi akademii.
Author: Karpov, Vasilii Parfentʹevich.; Comnena, Anna, Corp Author: Leningradskai︠a︡ dukhovnai︠a︡ akademīi︠a︡.
Publication: S.Peterburg : V. Tip. Departamenta Udelov, 1859
Document: Russian : Book
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64. Book The Alexiad of the Princess Anna Comnena, being the history of the reign of her father, Alexius I, Emperor of the Romans, 1081-1118 A.D.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: London, K. Paul, Trench, Trubner, 1928
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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65. Sound Recording Anna of Byzantium
Author: Barrett, Tracy, 1955-; Comnena, Anna, Publication: Louisville, KY : American Printing House for the Blind, 2000
Document: English : Sound Recording : Non-music : Fiction : Juvenile audience : Cassette tape Cassette tape
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66. Sound Recording Anna of Byzantium
Author: Barrett, Tracy, 1955-; Comnena, Anna, Publication: Southfield, Mich. : Readings for the Blind, 2006
Document: English : Sound Recording : Non-music : Fiction : Elementary and junior high school : Cassette tape Cassette tape
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67. Book L'Alessiade /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Rossi.
Publication: Milano : P.A. Molina, 1846-1849
Document: Italian : Book
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68. Sound Recording Anna of Byzantium
Author: Barrett, Tracy, 1955-; Comnena, Anna, Publication: Princeton, N.J. : Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, 2007
Document: English : Sound Recording : Non-music : Fiction : Elementary and junior high school : Compact disc Compact disc
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69. Book Anna of Byzantium /
Author: Barrett, Tracy, 1955-; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: New York : Dell Laurel Leaf, 2000, 1999
Document: English : Book : Fiction
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70. Book Aleksiada /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Li︠u︡barskiĭ, I︠A︡. N.
Publication: Sankt-Peterburg : Izd-vo "Aleteĭi︠a︡", 1996
Document: Russian : Book
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71. Book Alexiadis libri XV.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Alexius; Schopenus, Ludovicus,, and others
Publication: [Athens, Spanos, 1964, 1836
Document: Latin : Book
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72. Book Alexiade. Règne d l'empereur Alexis I Comnène, 1081-1118. Texte établi et traduit par Bernard Leib.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Leib, Bernard,; Gautier, Paul.
Publication: Paris Société d'édition Les Belles lettres 1967-1976
Document: French : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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73. Book The Alexiad of the Princess Anna Comnena : being the history of the reign of her father, Alexius I, emperor of the Romans, 1081-1118 A.D. /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Dawes, Elizabeth A. S.
Publication: New York : Kegan Paul, 2003
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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74. Book The Alexiad of the Princess Anna Comnena being the history of the reign of her father, Alexius I, Emperor of the Romans, 1081-1118 A.D. /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Dawes, Elizabeth A. S.
Publication: London : K. Paul, Trench, Trubner, 1928
Document: English : Book : Microform Microform
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75. Book The Alexiad of Anna Comnena
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Sewter, E. R. A.
Publication: Harmondsworth, Eng. ; Baltimore : Penguin Books, 1969
Document: English : Book : Microform Microform
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76. Book [Annēs tēs Komnēnēs, Porphyrogennētou Kaisarissēs Alexias]. = Annæ Comnenæ Porphyrogenitæ Cæsarissæ Alexias, siue De rebus ab Alexio Imperatore vel eius tempore gestis, libri quindecim. /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Poussines, Pierre,; Hoeschel, David,, and others
Publication: Parisiis, : E Typographia Regia., 1651
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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77. Sound Recording The Alexiad of Anna Comnena
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Gaze, Jean.; Sewter, Edgar Robert Ashton, Publication: [Melbourne : Royal Victorian Institute for the Blind Tertiary Resource Service], 1986
Document: English : Sound Recording : Non-music : Cassette tape Cassette tape
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78. Book [Annēs tēs Komnēnēs Alexias]. = Annæ Comnenæ Porhyrogenitæ Cæsarissæ Alexias, sive De rebus ab Alexio imperatore vel ejus tempore gestis, libri quindecim. /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Du Cange, Charles Du Fresne,; Hoeschel, David,, and others
Publication: Venetiis : Ex typographia Bartholomæi Javarina., 1729
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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79. Book Euthymii Zigabeni opera quæ reperiri potuerunt omnia juxta varias editiones Lipsiensem nempe Christ. Frid. Matthaei, Anthimi Tergobystensem, Ant. Bongiovanni Venetam, Nicolai Fogginii Romanam, typis repetita
Author: Euthymius, Zigabenus.; Migne, J.-P.; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: Turnhout Brepols 2003
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
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80. Book Recueil des historiens des croisades historiens grecs /
Author: Choniates, Nicetas,; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: Paris : Imprimerie Nationale, 1875-1881
Document: Greek, Modern [1453- ] : Book : Microform Microform
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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81. Book Annæ Comnenæ Alexias, sive de rebvs ab Alexio Imperatore vel eivs tempore gestis, libri qvindecim. E Bibliotheca Barberina nunc primùm editi, et à Petro Possino Latinâ interpretatione, glossario, t notis illustrati... vnà cum Sinnamo continuatore Annæ, et aliis quibusdam ad Alexiadem spectantibus. Accesserunt præfationes ac notæ Davidis Hoeschelii...
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: Parisiis, 1651
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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82. Book Aleksjada /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Jurewicz, Oktawiusz.
Publication: Wrocław : Zakład Narodowy im. Ossolińskich, 1969
Document: Polish : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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83. Book Annae Comnenae, Porphyrogenitae, Alexias /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Reifferscheid, August,
Publication: Lipsiae : Teubner, 1884
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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84. Book Annēs tēs Komnēnēs ... Alexias ... Annæ Comnenæ ... Alexias : sive De rebus ab Alexio imperatore vel eius tempore gestis, libri quindecim /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Publication: Parisiis : E typographia regia, 1651
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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85. Book Annēs tēs Komnēnēs, porphyrogennētoy Kaisarissēs Alexias = Annae Comnenae prophyrogenitae Caesarissae Alexias, sive de rebvs ab Alexio imperatore vel iuvs tempore gestis, libri quindecim /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Poussines, Pierre.; Cinnamus, Joannes., and others
Publication: Parisiis : E Typographia Regia, 1651
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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86. Book The Alexiad of Anna Comnena /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Sewter, Edgar Robert Ashton,
Publication: Harmondsworth, Middlesex : Penguin Books, 1967
Document: English : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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87. Book Annae Comnenae ... Alexias; De rebus ab Alexio imperatore vel eius tempore gestis libriquindecim; e Bibliotheca Barberina nunc primum editi et à Petro Possino latinà interpretatione, glossario e notis illustrati è quibus glossarium nunc datur ...
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Hoeschel, David,; Poussines, Pierre,
Publication: Parisiis, E Typographia regia, 1961
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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88. Book Annae Comnenae Alexiadis libri XV /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Reifferscheid, August,; Poussines, Pierre,, and others
Publication: [Athēna : Editions "Spanos", 1970, 1839
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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89. Book ... Alexias, sive de rebus ab Alexio Imperatore vel eius tempore gestis, libri quindecim. E Bibliotheca Barberina nunc primùm editi, et à Petro Possino ... Latinâ interpretatione, glossario, et notis illustrati ... Accesserunt praefationes ac notae Davidis Hoeschelii Augustani ex editione anni MDCX.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Hoeschel, David,
Publication: Parisiis, 1651
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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90. Article Epigrammata.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Article
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91. Book Annēs Tēs Komnēnēs Porphērogennētu [sic!, recte Porphyrogennētu] Kaisarissēs Alexias. Annæ Comnenæ Porphyrogenitæ Cæsarissæ Alexias, Sive De Rebus Ab Alexio Imperatore Vel Ejus Tempore Gestis, Libri Quindecim. E Bibliotheca Barberina nunc primum editi, Et a Petro Possino ... Latina Interpretatione, Glossario, et Notis illustrati, una cum Sinnamo Continuatore Annæ, et aliis quibusdam ad Alexiadem spectantibus. Accesserunt Præfationes ac Notæ Davidis Hoeschelii ..., ex Editione anni MDCX. itemque Notæ Historicæ [et] Philologicæ Caroli Du-Fresne [et] c.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Poussines, Pierre,; Hoeschel, David,, and others
Publication: Venetiis, 1729
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book
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92. Book [Alexias sive] historia Constantinopolitana, imperatorum prientalium et occidentalium, ab anno MLXXX. vel circiter, res gests complectens. Ex Augustana Greca bibliotheca. [Edidit David Hoeschelius].
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Hoeschel, David,
Publication: Augustae Vindelicorum, 1618
Document: Latin : Book
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93. Book Alexiade (règne de l'empereur Alexis I Comnène, 1081-1118)
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Leib, Bernard.
Publication: Paris : Société d'édition "Les Belles lettres", 1937-1945
Document: French : Book : Microform Microform
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94. Book Scriptores græci bellorum a Francis Dei signa sequentibus in Syria susceptorum.
Author: Miller, E.; Hase, Charles Benoît,, and others
Publication: [Paris, Imprimerie nationale, 1875-1881
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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95. Book Alexias, sive De rebus ab Alexio imperatore vel ejus tempore gestis, libri quindecim /
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Poussines.
Publication: Venetiis, 1729
Document: Latin : Book
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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96. Book Ta heuriskomena panta /
Author: Euthymius, Zigabenus.; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: Lutetiæ Parisiorum J.-P. Migne 1864-1898
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book : Microform Microform
Libraries Worldwide: 1
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97. Book Alexias : Car. du Fresnii du Cangii notis illustrata.
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Migne, J.-P.
Publication: [Paris], 1864
Document: Greek, Modern [1453- ] : Book

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98. Book The Alexiad of the Princess Anna Comnena being the history of the reign of her father, Alexius I, Emperor of the Romans, 1081-1118 A.D.,
Author: Comnena, Anna, b. 1083.; Dawes, Elizabeth A. S.
Publication: London, K. Paul, Trench, Trubner, 1928
Document: English : Book : Microform Microform

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99. Book Recueil des historiens des croisades. Historiens grecs /
Author: Choniates, Nicetas,; Comnena, Anna,
Publication: Paris : Imprimerie nationale, 1875-1881
Document: Greek, Ancient [to 1453] : Book

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spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 57
Hellenike Patrologia =
(Patrologia graeca) /

J-P q (Jacques-Paul) Migne; Ioannes K Diotes
1987- 1 Ekdose en Helladi.
Greek, Modern [1453- ] Book Book v. : ill., tables ; 26 cm.
Athenai : Kentron Paterikon Ekdoseon (KE. P.E.),
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# Availability: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries worldwide that own item: 13
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Find Items About: Patrologiae cursus completus (37)
Title: Hellenike Patrologia =
(Patrologia graeca) /
Author(s): Migne, J-P. q (Jacques-Paul),; 1800-1875.
Diotes, Ioannes K.
Publication: Athenai : Kentron Paterikon Ekdoseon (KE. P.E.),
Edition: 1 Ekdose en Helladi.
Year: 1987-
Description: v. : ill., tables ; 26 cm.
Language: Greek, Modern [1453- ]; Greek and Latin in double columns.
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Christian literature, Early -- Greek authors.
Christian literature, Latin (Medieval and modern)
Fathers of the church, Greek.
Note(s): Added features of the Greek edition are: an informative commentary in each volume; analytical contents of the volume taken from Dorotheos Scholarios Key to patrology and to byzantine authors./ Facsimile of the 1857 Paris first edition./ Includes indexes.
Class Descriptors: LC: BR60.A6
Other Titles: Patrologiae cursus completus. Series Graeca. Latin & Greek; Patrologia graeca
Responsibility: J.-P. Migne ; genike epimeleia tes Hellenikes Ekdoseos Ioannou K. Diote.
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19871106
Update: 20080319
Accession No: OCLC: 16949014
Database: WorldCat
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 56

Corpus scriptorum historiae Byzantinae /

Barthold Georg Niebuhr
1828-1897
Greek, Ancient [to 1453] Book Book 50 v. ; 22 cm.
Bonnae [Bonn] : Impensis E. Weberi,
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Find Items About: Corpus scriptorum historiae Byzantinae (4); Niebuhr, Barthold Georg, (max: 139); Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. (128)
Title: Corpus scriptorum historiae Byzantinae /
Author(s): Niebuhr, Barthold Georg,; 1776-1831.
Corp Author(s): Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin.
Publication: Bonnae [Bonn] : Impensis E. Weberi,
Year: 1828-1897
Description: 50 v. ; 22 cm.
Language: Greek, Ancient [to 1453]; Greek and Latin.
Standard No: LCCN: 11-32802
SUBJECT(S)
Geographic: Byzantine Empire -- History.
Note(s): After Niebuhr's death in l83l, the title includes "auctoritate Academiae litterarum regiae borussicae continuata."/ Each volume has also special title and t.p./ The volumes containing respectively Dexippus [and other writers], Procopius, Agathias, Leo diaconus [and other writers], Ioannes Cantacuzenus, are numbered pars I, II, III, XI, and XX on general t.p./ Contents listed in: Potthast, August. Repertorium fontium historiae medii aevi. Romae, apud Istituto storico italiano per il Medio Evo, 1962-
Class Descriptors: LC: DF503
Responsibility: editio emendatior et copiosior, consilio B.G. Niebuhrii C. f. instituta ...
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19770630
Update: 20080614
Accession No: OCLC: 3084036
Database: WorldCat
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 55

Byzantinusok

általában véve mindazok a görög irók, kik a byzantiumi (középkori görög) birodalom fennállása idejében (Nagy Constantinustól, azaz Kr. u. 32-től Konstantinápolynak a törökök által valók elfoglalásáig, azaz 1453-ig) irva a középkori görög (byzantiumi) irodalmat alkotják; rendszerint azonban szorosabb értelemben csak így, kik a byzantiumi birodalomnak és ezzel határos országoknak történetét megírták. Ez utóbbiaknak eddigelé legjobb gyüjteménye és kiadása a Niebuhr áltla kezdeményezett és a berlini Akademia által folytatott Corpus scriptorum historiae byzantinae 49 kötetben (Bonn, 1838–1878.)
P. V.
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A Gorog Nyelv Kincstara Intezet hirul adja, hogy rovidesen megjelenteti CD-ROM formaban. A konyv a Gorog Orszaghaz Konyvtarban talalhato.
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Select On-line Greek Resources
J.-P. Migne
PATROLOGIA GRAECA

http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/fathers/migne-patrologia-graeca.asp
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'' Egyedülálló Jaques-Paul Migne (1800-1875) teljesítménye. Kiadta az ókeresztény írók műveit. A két sorozat

Patrologia latina - 217 kötet,

Patrologia graeca 161 kötet.''
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 51

 

Jürgen, örömmel fogadnám, ha ismét leírnád a módosított fordításodat, hogy "egyben"  is láthassuk  beszélgetésünk  gyümölcsét.

Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 50

 

Már csak magyarul nem írtad ide "nekem", Spyros, elfelejtetted, hogy sajnos angolul sem tudok?

Előzmény: spiroslyra (43)
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.14 0 0 49

 

Teljesen világos, és igazad van a fordítást illetően, Jürgen.

 

(Időnként én is szoktam műfordítást készíteni szláv nyelvekből, tehát fordítói tapasztalataim nekem is vannak,  ismerem a fordítás nehézségeit, de a görög nyelvű szövegekhez nem tudok hozászólni sajnos.)  

 

Mivel nem ismerem a művet sem, amiből fordítasz, és nem tudtam, mit értsek a "tragédia" szó alatt, ezért kérdeztem rá erre a részre. Most, hogy kifejtetted,  már tudom, hogy Szophoklész egy tragédiájáról van szó.

Előzmény: Jürgen988 (40)
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Kedve Jürgen és Spyros!

 

Örülök, hogy így belelendületetek a témába, és a fordítást is nagyon köszönöm, ha továbbra is megtisztelitek vele a topikot!!!!

 

 

 

 

Előzmény: Jürgen988 (38)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 47
Most már nem "a kő dolgai" (λίθου πράγματα), hanem "az elbeszélés tárgyai" (λόγου πράγματα).
Előzmény: Jávorfácska (26)
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TGL > ἄδηλα es rahibaztam...:)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 45
Igen, ez az a rész a tragédiából. Nyáron én is rátaláltam, csak nem tudom, minek a segítségével (hacsak nem az Alexiasz régebbi angol fordításának segítségével, mivel asszem pontosabban idézi Szophoklészt)
Előzmény: spiroslyra (43)
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SOPHOCLES Trag.
(5 B.C.: Atheniensis)
Scholia: Cf. SCHOLIA IN SOPHOCLEM


Ajax, ed. A. Dain and P. Mazon, Sophocle, vol. 2. Paris: Les
Belles Lettres, 1958
Előzmény: spiroslyra (42)
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Sophocles, Ajax
Sir Richard Jebb, Ed.


Αἴας
ἅπανθ᾽ ὁ μακρὸς κἀναρίθμητος χρόνος
φύει τ᾽ ἄδηλα καὶ φανέντα κρύπτεται:
κοὐκ ἔστ᾽ ἄελπτον οὐδέν, ἀλλ᾽ ἁλίσκεται
χὠ δεινὸς ὅρκος χαἰ περισκελεῖς φρένες.

Ajax
All things the long and countless years first draw from darkness, and then bury from light; and there is nothing which man should not expect: the dread power of oath is conquered, as is unyielding will. [650]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0184:card=646
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Sophocles Trag. : Ajax : Line 648

ΑΙ. Ἅπανθ' ὁ μακρὸς κἀναρίθμητος χρόνος
φύει τ' ἄδηλα καὶ φανέντα κρύπτεται·
κοὐκ ἔστ' ἄελπτον οὐδέν, ἀλλ' ἁλίσκεται
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Ιγεν, εζτ μονδξα α λελεκταν ισ, α ηιβα α ρεξτεττ ιγαζσαγρα μθτατ. Σζαβο Αρπαδ ζενεματεματικαι φεξτεγετεσεβεν ζσενιαλισαν μθτατ κι λατσζολαγ ηαμισ πυτηαγορασζι φεξτεγετεσεκβεν, ιγαζ ηατερ ταρταλμακατ.

Ezt mondja a lelektan is, a hiba rejtett igazsagra mutathat. :) Szabo Arpad zenematematikai fejtegeteseiben zsenialisan mutat ki, a latszolag hamis pythagoraszi fejtegetesekben, igaz hatter tartalmakat.

Lam engem is nyomban megitelhetnek, mert nem kapcsoltam at a gepem magyar szora. :)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 40
"... és amely az ismeretlen dolgokat felhozza, a tragédia szerint, a láthatókat meg elrejti."

Ezt ma inkább így írnánk:

"... és amely - ahogy a tragédia mondja - az ismeretlen dolgokat felhozza, a láthatókat meg elrejti."

A kérdéses tragédia Szophoklésztól az Aiasz (Ajax), amelyből a nem pontos idézetet vette Anna Komnéné.

A fordításomban szeretném nagyjából megőrizni az eredeti szöveg struktúráit, ezért nem írtam át drasztikusan ezt a részt.
Előzmény: Jávorfácska (25)
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Igen, azt hiszem, hogy jo gondolat, ha parhuzamosan fut, mindket helyen a szoveg. Kivancsian varjuk folytatast. :)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 38
Átvihetjük a nyelvtani problémákat a másik topikba, viszont magát a fordítást itt írnám le továbbra is.

Egyébként jó, hogy írtad azokat a szótározásokat, mert felhívta a figyelmemet egy hibára, amire pedig direkt vigyáztam, mégis megtörtént. A dolog lényege, hogy az "eredeti" szöveg két nagyon régi kiadásban van meg: az egyik Jaques-Paul Migne Patrologia Graecae c. sorozatából (1857-1866), a másik a Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae c. forrásgyűjteményből (1839). Az előbbiben "λίθου πράγματα" szerepel, az utóbbiban viszont ezt a részt így írták a főszövegben: "ἄξια ... πράγματα". A jól látható kihagyáshoz egy lábjegyzetet írtak. Eszerint a kérdéses helyen lehet: "ἄξια λιθιου" vagy "λίθου" vagy (kifejezetten a fordító szerint) "λογου". Mivel egyéb helyeken is feltűntek különbségek, ezért megnéztem, hogy az általad közölt szövegrész nem üt-e el az általam használtaktól, mert az egyszerűség kedvéért azt másoltam a saját hozzászólásomba, de a "λόγου"-n átsiklottam, és nem írtam át. Én anno a "λίθου"-t használtam, mert az mindkét fordításánál előkerült, valami miatt a Corpus fordítójának ajánlását (λόγου) nem vettem észre.
Hozzáteszem, lehet, hogy rosszabbul jártunk volna, ha hibámat kijavítva eltűnik a különbség a görög és a magyar szöveg között.

A "λόγου πράγματα" szerintem értelmesebb, főképpen az előszó ezen részének mondanivalóját tekintve.
Előzmény: spiroslyra (37)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 37

Jo hogy alkalmat adsz szoveg bongeszesre, szavak keresesere. :) Remelem nem remisztjuk meg vele Javort. Persze en csak peldamondatok keresesere, szotarazasra vallalkozom, a grammatikahoz sajnos ''botfulu'' vagyok. Mit szolnal, ha atvinnenk ezen kerdeseket az ogorogozobe is, ahol talan segitseget, tanacsot kaphatnank a szoveg jobb megertesehez, pontositasahoz?
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lithos [i^], ou, o( (v. infr. 11),

A. stone, Hom., etc.; esp. of the stones thrown by warriors, trêchus l., l. okrioeis, Il.5.308, 8.327; also, stonequoit, Od.8.190; helesthai . . ek gaias lithon A.Fr.199.4 ; of building- stones, lithoi basilikoi PSI4.423.28 , PCair.Zen.499.20 (both iii B.C.): prov., en panti gar toi skorpios phrourei lithôi S.Fr.37 ; lithon hepsein 'to lose one's labour', Ar.V.280; also of stupid persons, 'blockheads', lithoi Id.Nu.1202 , cf. Thgn.568, Pl.Hp.Ma.292d, Gal.9.656; l. tis, ou) dou/lh Herod.6.4; prosêgoreuthê dia to mê phronein l., of Niobe, Philem.101; hôsper lithon zên Pl.Grg.494a sq.; lithôi laleis prov. of anaisthêtoi, Macar.5.61.

2. stone as a substance, opp. wood, flesh, etc., epei ou sphi l. chrôs oude sidêros Il.4.510 ; laous de lithous poiêse turned into stone, petrified, 24.611, cf. Pl.Smp.198c; so [nêa] theinai l. Od.13.156 ; as an emblem of hard-heartedness, soi d' aiei kradiê stereôterê esti lithoio 23.103 , cf. Theoc.3.18.

II. lithos, hê, twice in Hom., Il.12.287, Od.19.494, just like masc., also in Theoc.7.26, Bion Fr.1.2: later mostly of some special stone, as the magnet is called Magnêtis l. by E.Fr.567 (but hê lithos simply in Democr.11k, Arist.Ph. 267a2, cf. v.l. de An.405a20); also Ludia l. by S.Fr.800 (but in B.Fr. 10 J. Ludia l. = touchstone); Hêrakleia l. by Pl.Ion533d, Epicur.Fr. 293; so of a touchstone, Pl.Grg.486d; hê diaphanês l. a piece of crystal used for a burning-glass, Ar.Nu.767, cf. Luc.Alex.21; chutê l. was perh. a kind of glass, and so an older name for hualos, Epin.1.8 (the same thing as the artêmata lithina chuta in Hdt.2.69; cf. tên hualon . . hosa te lithôn chuta eidê kaleitai Pl.Ti.61c ); l. = precious stone is fem. in Hp.Nat.Mul.99, IG22.1421.92, 1460.21, but masc. in Hdt.2.44, etc.; in the sense of marble mostly masc., leukos l. Id.4.87 (simply lithos 1.164 ), S.Fr.330 (leukoi l. is opp. petrinoi l. Supp.Epigr.4.446.8 (Didyma)); Parios l. Pi.N.4.81 , Hdt.3.57; Tainarios l. Str.8.5.7 ; l. Thasios, Aiguptios, etc., Paus.1.18.6, etc.; konchitês Id.1.44.6 ; konchuliatês X.An.3.4.10 ; but Paria l. Theoc.6.38 , Luc.Am.13; cf. luchnias, -itês; pôrinos l. tufa, Hdt.5.62.

2. collectively, pephuke lithos . . aphthonos, ex hou . . X.Vect.1.4.

III. grave-stone (fem.), Call.Epigr.8.1.

IV. at Athens, lithos, ho, was a name for various blocks of stone used for rostra or platforms, as,

1. the bêma (q.v.) of the Pnyx, Ar.Ach.683, Pax 680, Ec.87.

2. another in the agora used by the kêrukes, Plu.Sol.8; prob. the same as ho pratêr l., on which the auctioneer stood when selling slaves, etc., Poll.3.78, cf. 126.

3. an altar in the agora, at which the Thesmothetae, arbitrators, and witnesses took their oaths, Philoch.65, D.54.26 (restored from Harp. s.v. lithos), Arist.Ath.7.1, 55.5, Plu.Sol.25; cf. lithômotês.

4. two stones on which litigants stood in the Areopagus, Paus.1.28.5.

V. piece on a draughtboard, Alc.82, Theoc. 6.18, cf. grammê 111.1 : hence pron., panta lithon kinein Zen.5.63 (who explains it differently).

VI. Medic., stone in the bladder, calculus, Arist.HA519b19, Hp.Morb.4.55, al.

VII. Dia lithon omnunai, = Lat. Jovem lapidem jurare, Plb.3.25.6.

VIII. lithoi chalazês hail- stones, LXX Jo.10.11.

IX. l. ho ou l. the philosophers' stone, Zos. Alch.p.122 B.

Ha kedveled azért, ha nem azért nyomj egy lájkot a Fórumért!