Elnezest, az osszevonasert, es a duplazasert, azert hoztam egy lapra, hogy kinyomtatva dolgozzunk a forditason Mariaval.
Arra is gondoltam, hogy megkernenk Musat, aki Arpad kozeleben van, hogy hozza el hozzank, azt hiszem igen jol elbeszelgethetnenek Nereusszal. Arpad epp most fejezte be egy ujgorog nepdal antologia forditasat Politisz gyujtesebol, igy 'szakerto' a temaban, hogy jelenik meg az idomertekes verseles a gorog nepkolteszetben.
Este beszeltem telefonon Mariaval, o az angol "kapcsolat", az okorkemkedesben, tanitvanya volt Johnak. Sajnos a gepuk 'bedoglott", igy legkozelebb csak egy szombat esti 'hazibuliban' talalkozunk. Megprobalom kerdesedet a magam tort angolsagaval tovabbitani fenypostan.
John cime:
johnlavery999@hotmail.com, csatolva a pedadat. Valamint Caidhan hozzaszolasat, Ted Hughes peldajaval.
Nereusz Batyo, megegyszer elnezesedet kerem, ha figyelmetlen, vagy lassu, nehezkes vagyok, persze a te Pegazusodnak szarnya van, mig az en teknosom csak lassan botorkal, haromszaz ev is kell hozza, mig 'megboldogul' es lyra lesz belole. Mig en itt alapfogalmak gyujtogetesevel, megtanulasaval babralok, addig ti a a filologia nagy kerdeseit feszegetitek, es jol teszitek, orulok neki, bar sajnos meg nem tudok erdemben hozzaszolni.
Mas. Elzo leveleim egyikeben, tan a Platonban, a ritmus rovat inditasa elott megkedtem toled, hogy beszelnel-e nekunk, szabadon valasztva a ritmus-metrum temakorbol, a Muzsa altal szervezett nyari lyra-muhelyben. A hallgatas, a belegyezes jele?:) Az ujgorogben, meg nem tanultam meg, mivel kulfoldon eltem, a hallgatas az nemet jelent, udvaris elutasitast. A mai gorogok igen kenyelmetlenul erzik magukat, ha nemet kell mondaniuk, inkabb hallgatnak. Masfelol egy eros es kimondott nem, valosaggal sokkolja oket, durvanak, eroszakosnak, sertonek talaljak. Sokszor megbotrankoztak rajtam, mikor igy reagaltam, es idobe kerult mig megertettem, hogy egy szeliden kimondott nem, foler a karomkodassal.
Internet kezikonyvekben olvasom, hogy az egymasnak irok is sokszor 'felreertik' egymast, mert hianyzik az athidalo kommunikacio lehetosege, a hang, a kep, a kozos kultura kodjai.
[Dear John! Question: A poet frind ask. If there is hexametre in English languae.
nereusz válasz erre | adatok | e-mail 2003-01-23 20:05:06 (26)
Is there hexameter in English verse?
Van itt egy ilyen példa daktilikus változatra, de szvsz. ez nem az:
Over the sea, past Crete, on the Syrian shore to the southward,
Dwells in the well-tilled lowland a dark-haired Aethiop people,
Skilful with needle and loom, and the arts of the dyer and carver,
Skilful, but feeble of heart; for they know not the lords of Olympus,
Lovers of men; neither broad-browed Zeus, not Pallas Athene,
Teacher of wisdom to heroes, bestower of might in the battle;
Share not the cunning of Hermes, nor list to the songs of Apollo,
Fearing the stars of the sky, and the roll of the blue salt water.
The hexameter is illustrated in English verse by this passage from Kingsley's Andromeda.
[előzmény : (23) spiroslyra, 2003.01.23 19:24]
nereusz válasz erre | adatok | e-mail 2003-01-23 20:03:54 (25)
Is there hexameter in English verse?
No lam! Nereusz a furge lexikonforgato, most aztan szaladhatok utannad, epp csak hogy itt lejjebb nyitottam ki Georgiades konyvet, ahol fedetten-burkoltan azt sugallja, hogy a nyugati nyelvekben nem letezhet a gorog ertelemben vett hexameter. Tobbet nem ir a lexikonod, megorvendeztetnel, ha ide irnad...:)
Baratsaggal:
Spiros, a telhetetlen konyvmoly!
[előzmény : (21) nereusz, 2003.01.23 19:14]
nereusz válasz erre | adatok | e-mail 2003-01-23 19:14:29 (21)
Figyelj, énekverset kell a vokális hexameteren érteni, kedves Szpirosz!
"Racionális" ütemekkel és lábakkal.
Ezt találod róla, ezek nem a saját elképzeléseim:
"... Eredetileg egy különleges haditánchoz kapcsolódott, amelyre T. Georgides még a mai görög néptáncok közt is rátalált a peloponnészoszi félsziget Kalamae nevű falvában (kalamae körtánc, szirtosz kalamatianosz). [...]
(Világirodalmi Lexikon 4. köt. 439. lap.)
Arról folyik a vita, hogy létezik-e angol hexameter?
Szeretettel: n.
[előzmény : (17) spiroslyra, 2003.01.23 08:37]
Caidhan válasz erre | adatok | e-mail 2003-01-23 20:49:13 (27)
az angol hexameter az a világ legnagyobb irodalmi kudarcainak egyike (pedig Erzsébet királynő - az első - idejében sokan és kitartóan kísérletezgettek vele). azzal próbálkoztak, hogy a hosszú-rövid váltakozást hangsúlyos-hangsúlytalan váltakozásként adják vissza és persze nem igazán sikerült élvezhető szövegeket csinálniuk.
Ted Hughes szabadverses Ovidius fordításai viszont magasan verik Devecserit.
egyébként mi a véleményetek a különböző időmértékes versek (főleg Weöres) Sebő-féle megzenésítéseiről? én a Sebő Rongyszőnyeg albumától tanultam hallani ezeket a ritmusokat...
az angol hexameter az a világ legnagyobb irodalmi kudarcainak egyike (pedig Erzsébet királynő - az első - idejében sokan és kitartóan kísérletezgettek vele). azzal próbálkoztak, hogy a hosszú-rövid váltakozást hangsúlyos-hangsúlytalan váltakozásként adják vissza és persze nem igazán sikerült élvezhető szövegeket csinálniuk.
Ted Hughes szabadverses Ovidius fordításai viszont magasan verik Devecserit.
egyébként mi a véleményetek a különböző időmértékes versek (főleg Weöres) Sebő-féle megzenésítéseiről? én a Sebő Rongyszőnyeg albumától tanultam hallani ezeket a ritmusokat...
Van itt egy ilyen példa daktilikus változatra, de szvsz. ez nem az:
Over the sea, past Crete, on the Syrian shore to the southward,
Dwells in the well-tilled lowland a dark-haired Aethiop people,
Skilful with needle and loom, and the arts of the dyer and carver,
Skilful, but feeble of heart; for they know not the lords of Olympus,
Lovers of men; neither broad-browed Zeus, not Pallas Athene,
Teacher of wisdom to heroes, bestower of might in the battle;
Share not the cunning of Hermes, nor list to the songs of Apollo,
Fearing the stars of the sky, and the roll of the blue salt water.
The hexameter is illustrated in English verse by this passage from Kingsley's Andromeda.
Van itt egy ilyen példa daktilikus változatra, de szvsz. ez nem az:
Over the sea, past Crete, on the Syrian shore to the southward,
Dwells in the well-tilled lowland a dark-haired Aethiop people,
Skilful with needle and loom, and the arts of the dyer and carver,
Skilful, but feeble of heart; for they know not the lords of Olympus,
Lovers of men; neither broad-browed Zeus, not Pallas Athene,
Teacher of wisdom to heroes, bestower of might in the battle;
Share not the cunning of Hermes, nor list to the songs of Apollo,
Fearing the stars of the sky, and the roll of the blue salt water.
The hexameter is illustrated in English verse by this passage from Kingsley's íAndromeda
No lam! Nereusz a furge lexikonforgato, most aztan szaladhatok utannad, epp csak hogy itt lejjebb nyitottam ki Georgiades konyvet, ahol fedetten-burkoltan azt sugallja, hogy a nyugati nyelvekben nem letezhet a gorog ertelemben vett hexameter. Tobbet nem ir a lexikonod, megorvendeztetnel, ha ide irnad...:)
Baratsaggal:
Spiros, a telhetetlen konyvmoly!
Figyelj, énekverset kell a vokális hexameteren érteni, kedves Szpirosz!
"Racionális" ütemekkel és lábakkal.
Ezt találod róla, ezek nem a saját elképzeléseim:
"... Eredetileg egy különleges haditánchoz kapcsolódott, amelyre T. Georgides még a mai görög néptáncok közt is rátalált a peloponnészoszi félsziget Kalamae nevű falvában (kalamae körtánc, szirtosz kalamatianosz). [...]
(Világirodalmi Lexikon 4. köt. 439. lap.)
Arról folyik a vita, hogy létezik-e angol hexameter?
Kedves Nereusz es John!
A tovabbiakban, ha nektek is ugy tetszik, a szotarak es enciklopediak bongeszese mellett, Georgiadestol veszunk szemugyre nehany gondolatot, izelitoul mara a Ritmus es a nyelv fejezetbol. A fordito Harasz Tombra. A gorog ritmus, Armos kiado, 2001.
[E katalogusainkbol meg a pontossag es teljesseg kedveert a cimek:
Der griechische Rhythmus;
Musik, Reigen, Vers und Sprache.
Thrasybulos Georgos Georgiades
1949
German Book 163 p. illus., music 21 cm.
Hamburg, M. von Schröder
Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library.
Libraries that Own Item: 41
More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author | Advanced options ...
Title: Der griechische Rhythmus;
Musik, Reigen, Vers und Sprache.
Author(s): Georgiades, Thrasybulos Georgos, 1907-
Publication: Hamburg, M. von Schröder
Year: 1949
Description: 163 p. illus., music 21 cm.
Language: German
Standard No: LCCN: a 50-3250
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Music, Greek and Roman.
Greek language -- Metrics and rhythmics.
Class Descriptors: LC: ML169
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19810727
Update: 20010927
Accession No: OCLC: 7619176
Database: WorldCat
Musik und Rhythmus bei den Griechen :
zum Ursprung der abendländischen Musik /
Thrasybulos Georgos Georgiades
1958
German Book 146 p. : music ; 19 cm.
Hamburg : Rowohlt,
Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library.
Libraries that Own Item: 19
More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author | Advanced options ...
Title: Musik und Rhythmus bei den Griechen :
zum Ursprung der abendländischen Musik /
Author(s): Georgiades, Thrasybulos Georgos, 1907-
Publication: Hamburg : Rowohlt,
Year: 1958
Description: 146 p. : music ; 19 cm.
Language: German
Series: Rowohlts deutsche Enzyklopädie ;; 61;
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Music, Greek and Roman.
Greek language -- Metrics and rhythmics.
Note(s): Includes bibliographical references (p. 139-140) and index.
Class Descriptors: LC: ML169
Responsibility: Thrasybulos Georgiades.
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19910918
Update: 19970416
Accession No: OCLC: 26637841
Database: WorldCat
Georgiades, Thrasybulos, Musik und Rhythmus bei den Griechen: Zum Ursprung der abendlaendischen Musik, Rowohlts deutsche Enzyklopaedie (Hamburg: Rowohlt, 1958)
____________________, Greek music, verse and dance [áăăë. ěôö. ôďő Der griechische Rhythmus] (New York: Merlin Press, c1955)
"Georgiadis gondolatai, ha latszik is rajtuk az ido mulasa, erdeklodesunkre tarthatnak szamot, az erveles ereje, szferikus tudasa miatt.
A ket konyv ugyanazt a temat dolgozza fel: (Habilitationsschrift 1947) a gorog ritmust es mindmaig ero hatasat a zeneben, prozaban, kolteszetben, az ogorog zenetol ihletve, belole agazva. Az ogorog prozodia az ujgorog tancban el tovabb, mint peldaul a kalamatiano, a daktilikus hexameter stb." (Blangopoulos)]
Es most egy elso, vazlatos kiserlet Georgiades "suru" szovegenek ertelmezesere.
Platonnal es Arisztotelesznel meg, de mar nem ugy Arisztoxenosznal - a ritmika nem volt onallo. A problemat Platon a Kratillosban igy veti fel (424C): Oi epiheirountes tois rithmois ton stoiheion proton tas dinameis dieilonto, epeita ton sillabon kai outos idi erhontai epi tois ritmois skepsomenoi, proteron d' ou. Arisztotelesznel pedig (Meta ta fisika 13,1): En de tois rithmois basis kai sillabi.
Igy hat az arisztotelesi orologia szerint az ogorog teoriaban a ritmika nem ellentete a metrikanak abbol a szempontbol, mint ahogy az gyakori a kozepkorban es azt kovetoen. A ritmus fogalma a 'tonikus' kolteszetben hasznalatos, a metrum fogalma pedig mennyisegi(posotiki). Az okori (Aristoxenos - Morelli 226. old.) ritmika fogalmat ugy ertelmezhetnenk, mint a ritmus hasznalatat, fuggetlenul a ritmizalando 'anyagtol'(iliko). A ritmizalando anyag a szo, a dallam, a testmozgas. Ebben az ertelemben hasznalatos a ket fogalom es a beloluk kepzett kifejezesek, a ritmika, mikor a szo nem jatszik szerepet, metrika, mikor zenei ritmus es a nyelv osszehangolasarol van szo. Tehat visszlepve Arisztoteleszhez, a ritmika meg nem szakadt el a metrikatol. Ez azt jelenti, hogy maga a szo hatarozta meg a ritmikus format, a nyelv nem lehetett csupan semleges anyag, melyen alkalmazhato valamilen tiszta "abszolut" ritmika. A zeneileg fuggetlen ritmus osszefonodott a szoval. A nyelv tehat, magatol is zene volt, zenei hanzo "testtel". (A kifejezest, Klanglieb megtalaljuk meg tobbek kozt Besselernel 'Mittelalter und renaisance" Zenetudomanyi Lexikon- Potsdam, E.Bucken,1931. 30. old., valamint Jammertol ugyanitt.) Az ogorog nyelv nem hasonlit a nyugati nyelvekhez, nem vizsgalhato a megszokott glosszologia prizmajan at nezve. Az gondolat mellett, mely osszefugg a kifejezessel es a megjelenessel, mely egy nyelvi formaban adatik at, tartalmaz egy tiszta zenei elemet. Ezzel azonban ne gondoljunk egy az altalanos nyelveszetben megszokott formara, meg a zenei gloszologikus 'tonizmusra' sem. Itt valami lenyeges kulonbsegrol van szo, melynek gyokerei melyek. Es ez az ogorog nyelv sajatos 'kiterjedese' (diarkeia), mertekbecslese (ipologizmo). A zenei "szovet" a nyelvi ritmikaban kolcsonhatasban van a zenei tonusokkal. Az ogorg szo akusztikus 'teste' nem csak ritmikai, hanem melodikus is. Igy dallamossag szempontjabol zenei eredetu.
Ha "vokalis hexametert mint zenet", esetleg a mai nepdal tanulmanyokbol valonak gondolod, ugy vannak az archivumomban az okori ritmikat-metrikat a mai gorog nepzenevel osszevetni probalo tanulmanyok, ezeket kesobbi olvasasra szanva tettem felre. Elovesszuk oket, kulonosen majd, mikor Georgiades tanulmanyat olvassuk.
John most eppen repul London fele, elmagyaraztam neki, hogy tud kommunikalni velunk, de kis idobe telik, mig a fordito-ferdito haromszog mukodni kezd. Forditonk a Barkiza fele eso varosreszben lakik Athenban, igy sajnos nehezebb elerni, mint Londont, hogy megtanitsam neki az Index kezeleset.
Irulva-pirulva bevallom, hogy nem ismerem a vokalis hexametert mint zenet, de igyekszem potolni...:) Te hol talalkoztal ezzel a temaval?
Mas. Keresgelnunk kene, hogy melyik a legjobb magyar nyelven is olvashato ritmika-metrika konyv, vagy tanulmany, amit kivalaszthatnank kozos olvasmanynak, ha te is ugy gondolod.
Jo reggelt!
Spiros
Rudolf, német filologus, szül. Obernkirchenben (Hessen) 1826 jul. 3., megh. Stadthagenben 1892 jul. 11-én. 1856. tübingiai magán-, 1858. boroszlói rendkivüli egyetemi tanár. Később visszavonult, azután Livföldre ment gimnáziumi tanárnak, onnan 1875. Moszkvába nevezték ki a Katkov-féle muzeum tanárának. Kiválóbb művei: Metrik der griech. Dramatiker u. Lyriker (3 köt., 1854-65); Theorie d. musischen Künste d. Hellenen (3 köt., 1885); Die Fragmente u. die Lehrsätze der griech. Rhythmiker (1861); System der antiken Rhythmik (1865); Geschichte der alten und mittelalterlichen Musik (1865); Scriptores metrici Graeci (1866); Philosophisch-historische Grammatik der deutschen Sprache (1868); Prolegomena zu Aeschylos' Tragödien (1869); Theorie d. neuhochdeutschen Metrik (1870); Methodische Grammatik der griech. Sprache (1870); Elemente des musikalischen Rhythmus mit Rücksicht auf unsere Opernmusik (1872); Die Verbalflexion d. lat. Sprache (1873); Vergleichende Grammatik der indogerman. Sprachen (1873); Allgemeine Theorie der musikalischen Rhythmik seit J. Sebastian Bach (1880); Aristoxenus von Tarent (1883); Die Musik des griech. Alterthums (1883). Kiadta továbbá: Aristophanes: Acharner (1869); Humoristische Lyrik des klassischen Altertums (1869). Nyelvészeti művei nem állnak a tudomány szinvonalán, de a metrika és ritmika terén kifejtett munkássága korszakalkotó.
C.M.J. Sicking and P. Stork, Two Studies in the Semantics of the Verb in Classical Greek. Leiden: Brill, 1996. Pp. xii + 308. $108.50. ISBN 90-041-0460-7.
Reviewed by Stephen Colvin, Dept. of Classics, Yale University.
The two studies in question are (Part I, pp. 1-118) 'Aspect choice: time reference or discourse function?' by Sicking, and (Part II, pp. 119-298) 'The synthetic perfect in classical Greek' by Sicking and Stork in collaboration. The book represents another of the extraordinary contributions to the crossover area between linguistics and the critical interpretation of texts made by Dutch scholars in the present century. Both studies in the present volume continue earlier work on the same subject by the authors.1 Clearly-worded exposition, plenty of (politely worded) disagreement with standard views, masses of supporting examples and a slightly forbidding title constitute the style of the new Dutch school. The two studies go closely together, as both raise questions of verbal aspect and Aktionsart (or actio): the discussion in Part I is structured around the question, 'What were the considerations which guided the speaker (writer) in his choice of an Aorist Stem (AS) or a Present Stem (PS)?', while Part II queries the common interpretation of the perfect as (more or less) a narrative tense in the classical period. These questions are somewhat uncomfortable for most of us: they are extraordinarily basic to the Greek language, but when we read and teach Greek we generally fall back on the answers supplied at an early age by school grammars, and later reinforced by Kühner-Gerth and the scholarly work of trusted figures such as and Wackernagel and Chantraine. There is nothing wrong with this, except for the awareness that in many cases in reading a Greek text the traditional criteria cannot be forced to work (i.e., we do not understand the choice that the author has made), and one is therefore left in the unsatisfactory situation of having to suppose (for example) that there is an element of subjectivity in the choice between AS and PS of such delicacy that we cannot always hope to recapture it. This, of course, may be unsatisfactory but it is not impossible; and one thinks hard before rejecting Chantraine and Wackernagel (among others). Nevertheless, classical scholarship has built on the work of these scholars and moved on; furthermore, it has been enriched by new ways of thinking about language which have crossed over from the discipline of linguistics, and even by new discoveries: K. L. McKay in 1965 pointed out that new Menander discoveries had vitiated Chantraine's statistics and hence his analysis of the Greek perfect.2 A new suggestion for the interpretation of verbal aspect in Greek must be worth serious consideration, and classicists will not feel intimidated by the Sicking-Stork way of proceeding: there is very little linguistic jargon, and exhaustive, methodical use of quotation from Classical texts. Helpful summaries are included at fairly frequent intervals.
In Part I Sicking expands the argument of his earlier article, in which he challenged the general (if vaguely held) views on the difference between the aorist and present verbal stems. The point at issue: the most common ways of articulating the difference between AS and PS are (a) AS as simple action (punctual) versus PS as a process (durative); or (b) AS as completed action (perfective) versus PS as non-completed (durative). Sicking challenges these semantic oppositions along the same lines as in his earlier work. In the present study he applies his analysis (i) to past sub-clauses introduced by W(S, E)PEI/(TE) and E)PEIDH/, and (ii) to participle clauses, including genitive absolutes. In particular, he concentrates on refuting an important work by H. Hettrich3 which (following Ruijgh in Autour de TE épique, 1971) attempts to analyze AS and PS in Herodotus along the following opposition: AS signifies that the verbal action is complete at the 'moment donné', while PS signifies a process that is not yet finished at this moment. This definition links verbal aspect closely to (relative) chronology: the 'moment donné' is given by the main clause in a temporal sentence, and the sub-clause will on this view signify either that the (subordinate) verbal action is simultaneous (PS), or that it is anterior and complete (AS). Sicking argues that this (and other 'monolithic' accounts) will not work. He proposes instead to distinguish between the 'meaning' (factual information) of a communication on the one hand, and (borrowing from discourse analysis) its organization and pragmatic function on the other. He believes that previous attempts to explain the AS/PS opposition have had limited success precisely because they have concentrated on the meaning and ignored the discourse structure. He argues that information about the (relative) chronology of events must be gathered from the context, not from the verbal stems, and explains the AS/PS contrast as a matter of emphasis and narrative structure within the larger communicational (or literary, if you prefer) context. Linguists, including Hettrich, have always sternly insisted on the importance of context in the study of verbal aspect, so there is nothing particularly startling in this declaration of principle. What is new is the amount of context and its 'scientific' application to verbal morphology: discourse analysis, as Sicking remarks, analyses the organization of language beyond the level of the sentence, and there are often cases where he (and Sicking-Stork in Part II) correct the contextually-based interpretation of a Greek sentence of an earlier scholar by reference to an even wider narrative context: what has happened previously in the story, or what outcome the author is setting us up for. The cash value of all this is that in Section 1 Sicking sets out to demonstrate that E)PEI/ + AS marks a step in the narrative that is important in itself, while E)PEI/ + PS merely points forward or in general sets the scene for the next important development. Similarly, in the case of participles AS foregrounds the verbal action in the narrative while PS participles 'typically serve the purpose of preparing the audience for what will come next, the information conveyed owing its relevance to what is reported in the main clause' (p. 42). As part of this exercise he argues that Hettrich and others are mistaken in seeing a tendency on the part of the subordinate verb to assimilate its stem that of the main verb. A satisfying part of Sicking's approach (as with that of Sicking-Stork in Part II) is his ability to relate the Aktionsart of the verbs to their appearance in AS or PS. It has always been an odd and worrying feature of the 'monolithic' explanations that these two ingredients of verbal aspect, viz. the verbal stem and the semantic characteristics of the verb, were not systematically related (this is such a tricky issue that the terminology is scarcely agreed on). Sicking uses the terms punctual (e.g., E)LQEI=N), terminative (AI)TEI=N) and durative (E)LPI/ZEIN): he demonstrates how verbs gravitate towards AS or PS in various contexts, and makes this part of his attempt to account for (what he sees as) the historic mix-up with relative chronology. In Section 2 he examines the effect of the postposition of subclauses and participles after the main verb. Section 3 (Preliminary Conclusion) and Section 4 (A Basic Value for AS versus PS) give a reasoned account of his position and might perhaps be read before Sections 1 & 2 by someone looking for a quick overview: Section 4 introduces the important notion of 'focus function' (associated with PS), and tackles those verbal lexemes where altering the stem really will alter the meaning (e.g., the conative imperfect of 'terminative' verbs such as PEI/QW). In Section 5 he applies his analysis to three extended passages of Greek prose (two from Hdt. and one from Thuc.). Section 6 is a brief conclusion and Section 7 is a sketchy examination of AS and PS in 'dynamic' infinitives (infinitives where stem is not narrowly related to tense, as in indirect speech) which draws on Stork's book on the subject. Sicking's account of AS and PS is interesting and persuasive: there are of course instances where readers may challenge his analysis of the narrative structure (this after all moves close to 'subjective' literary interpretation at times); but the gain over the old situation, where one was often at a complete loss to explain the author's choice, is considerable. The study deserves careful consideration by all classicists interested in this issue.
In Part II Sicking and Stork challenge the opinio communis on the interpretation (and history) of the Greek perfect (by 'synthetic' they mean single-form perfects as opposed to the participle-plus-auxiliary of modern Greek, and English). About sixty pages of this section are dedicated to arguing their case; this is followed by over 100 pages of tables and indices giving the distribution (and analysis) of perfect forms in the tragedians, Aristophanes, Thucydides, Lysias, and Xenophon's Opuscula. The Sicking-Stork view of the perfect, though radical, will not be as startling as their analysis of the PS-AS opposition since the issues they consider have from time to time been raised by other scholars,4 though not (so far as I know) in such a systematic manner. The tables in the back are necessary because they argue, probably rightly, that previous statistical analysis of the perfect is based on partial and misleading data. Discussion of the semantic value of the perfect (a synchronic issue) has generally been bound up with discussion of its evolution before and after the classical period since almost all scholars who have tackled the subject have detected a shift in its meaning between Homeric and Hellenistic Greek, roughly corresponding to a shift from being a verbal stem which designated state to one which designated past action (and thus became increasingly assimilated to the aorist tense). Sicking-Stork argue that the perfect at all stages in ancient Greek denotes present state. The argument is set out slightly more elegantly than in Part I, and takes in an extremely interesting discussion of the middle voice and an analysis of the interaction of the Aktionsart of different verbal lexemes with perfect (and/or middle) inflection.
In Section 1 (The Problem) the authors set out some of the commonly-held positions that they take issue with. These include the argument that by the fifth century the perfect was 'resultative' rather than pure stative, designating present-situation-as-the-result-of-past-action (a view almost universally adopted in the handbooks), and the 'intensive' perfect (PEFO/BHMAI) which has occasionally been identified as a by-product of the resultative (what action could PEFO/BHMAI point back to?). In Section 2 (Perfect and Middle Voice) they take a detour to consider the semantic PEFO/BHMAI of the middle as part of their investigation into the perfect. This is valuable for two reasons: first, it is time for a semantic re-evaluation of the middle; and second, the morphological contamination of the perfect with middle inflection has long been included in discussions of the perfect, but from a generally diachronic perspective. A synchronic analysis which relates the perfect, the middle, and the Aktionsart of the verbal lexemes is particularly valuable. Sicking-Stork argue that forms such as MAI/NETAI are 'prototypical' middles, while middles which take an accusative (E)DH/SATO KALA\ PE/DILA) are to be considered 'peripheral': the relevance to the perfect is that prototypical middles denote a present state (of the subject) and lack the feature 'control' (i.e. in the case of MAI/NETAI the human agent has no control over the 'action' of the verb, which explains the gradual assimilation of middle and passive). The feature 'control' proves to be vital for Section 3 (Four Types of Situations), where it is used along with the feature 'change' (for which contrast TE/QHLE 'no change' with LE/LOIPA 'with change') to divide verbal lexemes into four semantic categories which have different narrative properties. In Section 4 the authors return to the question of whether the perfect entered into the tense system in the fifth century. Here they make an interesting distinction between denotation and presupposition: a perfect form may presuppose an action in the past (in the case of verbal lexemes which include the feature 'control'), but what it denotes is a present situation. Section 5 (Productivity, Use and Distribution of Different Forms of Perfect) examines the morphology of various perfect forms. In a curious remark on p. 176 they say (of 'state' verbs with both present and perfect, e.g. PEFO/BHMAI) that such perfects are an inheritance from archaic epic poetry. It is not clear what this could mean: perhaps merely that they are unproductive forms from an older period of the language. The authors' suggestion that this type of perfect was felt to be a poetic idiom is inappropriate in the case of (for example) Aristophanic E)/STUKA.
The 'classic' account of the perfect given by Chantraine and others had already been called into question, and the present study, to my mind, is an important contribution to a new and better understanding of the perfect in particular and Greek verbal aspect in general.
NOTES
1. In particular, Sicking's recent article ('The distribution of Aorist and Present tense stem forms in Greek, especially in the imperative', Glotta 69, 1991), and Stork's book on verbal aspect in Herodotus (The Aspectual Usage of the Dynamic Infinitive in Herodotus, Groningen 1982).
2. 'The Use of the Ancient Greek Perfect down to the Second Century AD': BICS 12, 1-21.
3. Kontext und Aspekt in der altgriechischen Prosa Herodots (Göttingen 1976). Sympathetically reviewed by Rijksbaron (Lingua [1978], 223-54) and Ruijgh (Gnomon 51 [1979], 217-27).
4. E.g, by Mackay op. cit., and in BICS 27 (1980), 23-49. Donna Goldberg (Diss. Oxford 1997) has demonstrated that the perfect in Menander does not express anteriority like a narrative tense but assists in the structuring of the narrative.
Enchiridion of Metrics
by
Erling B. Holtsmark
mail@gouwen.com
www.gouwen.com
§1.1 Introduction
The subject of Greek metrics is inherently interesting.
It is not the great mystery that it is often represented to be but is in fact quite systematic and rule-bound. You can learn how to scan Greek poetry and think about metrics, from relatively simple structures like the dactylic hexameters of Homeric poetry to the truly complex creations of choral odes in Pindar and Athenian tragedy. If you follow the course I have put together here and take your time with the exercises making sure you understand each section before going on to the next one you will soon surprise yourself with your skill at scansion and identification of meters.
As anyone will appreciate who has spent some time dealing with metrics, a few of the rules you learn in the beginning will require some accommodations and modifications as you go along. But for now just concentrate on getting down the basics so you can accurately syllabify and scan a line of Greek poetry. Later you can worry about breaking some of those rules.
It may seem to some that I belabor unnecessarily the rule-driven nature of the explanations and exercises provided in this introductory course on Greek metrics. Guilty as charged! I've taught Greek metrics in the class-room for over three decades, and it has become painfully clear to me that students have greatest difficulty with the basics (and therefore with scansion in general): how do you figure out what is long and what is short? My instruction will, I hope, provide a solid fall-back position for those instances where you have doubt about this point (which doubt in turn will make proper scansion problematical!): once you know the rules from the ground up, you always have something definite to fall back on. For obviously you very soon get out of the habit of conscious syllabification and determination of longs and short -- it becomes quite automatic to read metrically, certainly in 'simple' meters like the dactylic hexameter and the iambic trimeter. But even here -- and certainly in choral odes -- it is more than comforting to be able to go back to solid basics in order to justify a given scansion.
For these reasons I urge users of this 'course' to be extremely thorough about §2-§5 -- the meat of syllabification and scansion. Be sure you understand each section thoroughly before going on to the next one. If you are in a first poetry course and Homer is your introduction to Greek poetry, just continue with §5 (dactylic hexameters) after a thorough study of §2, §3 and §4.
I invite readers at all levels of ability to let me know if anything in the presentation doesnt make sense, is unclear, or even wrong. I claim no omniscience in this matter, and I think of the project as an on-going work in progress.
I dedicate this course to the memory of Elroy Bundy. I had the great luck as an undergraduate in the mid-fifties at UC Berkeley to be introduced to Greek poetry and the study of metrics in a course he taught on the Bacchae of Euripides. His enormous enthusiasm and deep understanding of the subject made an indelible impression on me.
SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Snell Bruno Griechische Metrik Vanderhoeck & Rupprecht:
Göttingen 1962 [3rd ed]
Halporn James W. The Meters of Greek Methuen & Co.: 1963
West M. L. Greek Meter Clarendon Press: Oxford 1982
West M. L. Introduction to Clarendon Press: Oxford 1987
Greek Meter (Abridged version)
Sicking C.M.J. Griechische Verslehre Handbuch der Altertumswissenschaft
Müller Iwan von 2.4: C.H. Becksche Verlagsbuch-
Otto Walter handlung, München 1993
Bengtson Hermann
Finally, before proceeding, do a quick visual review in the next two sections (§1.2 and §1.3) of the general and specific organization of the Greek alphabet as it applies to our purposes here.
Griechische Verslehre /
C M J Sicking; Marlein van Raalte
1993
German Book x, 246 p. ; 25 cm.
München : C.H. Beck, ISBN: 3406352529
Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library.
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Title: Griechische Verslehre /
Author(s): Sicking, C. M. J. ; Raalte, Marlein van,; 1952-
Publication: München : C.H. Beck,
Year: 1993
Description: x, 246 p. ; 25 cm.
Language: German
Series: Handbuch der Altertumswissenschaft ;; 2. Abt., 4. T.;
Standard No: ISBN: 3406352529; LCCN: 93-139558
SUBJECT(S)
Descriptor: Greek language -- Metrics and rhythmics.
Greek poetry -- History and criticism.
Note(s): Includes bibliographical references (p. [216]-224) and indexes.
Class Descriptors: LC: PA25; PA417; Dewey: 881/.0109
Responsibility: von C.M.J. Sicking ; in Zusammenarbeit mit Marlein van Raalte.
Document Type: Book
Entry: 19930413
Update: 20010602
Accession No: OCLC: 27892795
Database: WorldCat
Sicking, C.M.J., Griechische Verslehre, Handbuch der Altertumswissenschaft II/4 (Muenchen: Beck,1993)
A cim Gorog 'stichourgia', a 'metrika' helyett, nem veletlen. Sicking osszefoglalja a vonatkozo teoriakat Westphaltol maig. Azt javasolja, gondoljuk at ujra a 'metron'-rol es a 'kola'-rol valo nezeteinket. Meggyozoen bebizonyitja, hogy a ritmus-profilja a verssoroknak felreerteseken alapszik. Megfigyelesei hasznosak nezeteink atertekelesehez a melodiara vonnatkoztatva is. Egy passzus az eloszobol:"Megbizonyosodtunk affelol, hogy a verssorok ritmus-profilja nem a metrumtol meghatarozott, a mai ertelemben folfogva a metrumot. A verssorok elemei, osszefuggesei nem az ismetlodesek altal meghatarozottak a 'kola'-ban es a metrumban, hanem egy "vonalas" egymasutansagban.
Sicking munkaja a hires es tortenelmi
Handbuch der Altertumswissenschaft kiadas resze, a legkorszerubb es legtartalmas tanulmany amit kezbe vehetunk.
Sur la Toile
Sur son site Viva Voce. Roman Poetry Recited, Vojin Nedeljkovic (Université de Belgrade) lit des vers latins empruntés ŕ une série d'auteurs (entre autres Catulle, Ovide, Horace, Virgile, Martial, Juvénal). Les textes (format mp3) sont choisis pour illustrer ŕ la fois la prononciation du latin et la scansion de différents mčtres (hexamčtre, trimčtre iambique, choliambe, etc.). La réalisation est remarquable. Le site fournit aussi des liens intérssants sur la scansion et la prononciation du latin.
On trouvera d'autres lectures de počmes latins (entre autres Catulle, Properce, Horace, Ovide) sur le site Recordings of Latin Poetry de Walt Stevenson (University of Richmond). Les textes lus sont transmis au format wav.
Grec et latin
Allen W.S., Accent and Rhythm. Prosodic Features of Latin and Greek. A Study in Theory and Reconstruction, Cambridge, 1973, 394 p. (Cambridge Studies in Linguistcs, 12).
Christ W., Die Metrik der Griechen und Römer, Leipzig, Teubner, 2e éd., 1879, 716 p.
Halporn J.W., Ostwald M., Rosenmeyer T. G., The Meters of Greek and Latin Poetry. Revised Edition, Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1980, 137 p.
Koster W.J., Traité de métrique grecque, suivi d'un précis de métrique latine, 3e éd., Leyde, 1962, 384 p.
Luque Moreno J.,Arsis, Thesis, Ictus. Las marcas del ritmo en la música y en la métrica antiguas, Universidad de Granada, 1994, 255 p.
Luque Moreno J., De pedibus. De Metris. Las unidades de medída en la rítmica y en la métrica antíguas, Grenade, 1995, 357 p. (Biblioteca de estudios clásicos).
Schmid W., Über die klassische Theorie und Praxis des antiken Prosarhythmus, Wiesbaden, 1959, 203 p. (Hermes. Einzelschriften, 12).
[ Plan de cette section ] [ Musique ] [ Bibliographie d'orientation ]
Grec
Dain A., Traité de métrique grecque, Paris, 1965, 273 p. (Tradition de l'Humanisme, 1).
Devine A.M., Stephens D, The Prosody of Greek Speech, Oxford, 1994, 565 p. CR: BMClR (I) et BMClR (II).
Fantuzzi M., Pretagostini R., Struttura e storia dell'esametro greco, Rome, 2 vol., 1995-1996, 434 et 340 p. (Studi di metrica classica 10). CR: BMClR.
Gentili Br., Perusino Fr. [Éd.], Mousike: Metrica Ritmica e Musica Greca in Memoria di Giovanni Comotti, Pise, 1995, 380 p.: 19 contributions, regroupées sous trois titres: Musica e ritmica; Metrica e danza; Musica antica e moderna.
Korzeniewski D., Griechische Metrik. Einführung in den Gegenstand, Methoden und Ergebnisse der Forschung, Darmstadt, 1968, 216 p. (Die Altertumswissenschaft): 2e éd. 1989.
Maas P., Greek Metre, Oxford, 1962, 116 p.: 2e éd. corrigée en 1966; il s'agit en fait de la traduction anglaise, mise ŕ jour, d'un original allemand Griechische Metrik, paru en 1923; trad. italienne en 1976.
Raven D.S., Greek Metre. An Introduction, 2e éd., Londres, 1968, 127 p.
Schroeder O., Nomenclator metricus. Alphabetish geordnete Terminologie der griechischen Verswissenschaft, Heidelberg, 1929, 49 p. (Bibliothek der klassischen Altertumswissenschaften, 5).
Sicking C.M.J., Griechische Verslehre, Munich, 1993, 246 p. (Handbuch der Altertumswissenschaft, II, 4).
Snell B., Griechische Metrik, Göttingen, 4e éd., 1982, 76 p.
West M.L., Introduction to Greek Metre, Oxford, 1987, 90 p.: abrégé de l'ouvrage précédent.
Pour d'autres ouvrages sur la métrique d'auteurs particuliers (Homčre, Callimaque, Eschyle, Aristophane, Euripide, Sophocle), voir la page "Metrik und Musik" de la Studienbibliographie de Ugo Schmitzer, ŕ laquelle sont d'ailleurs empruntés plusieurs de nos titres.
[ Plan de cette section ] [ Musique ] [ Bibliographie d'orientation ]
Latin
Bibliographie
Cupaiuolo F., Bibliografia della metrica latina, Naples, 1995, 224 p. (Studi latini, 16).
Lexiques et concordances
On n'oubliera pas que le Département de philologie classique de l'Université de Grenade (Espagne) publie une importante collection de concordances et d'index sur les auteurs latins traitant de métrique: "Scriptores Latini de re metrica. Concordantiae. Indices". Cfr la rubrique Index.
Études
Aumont J., Métrique et stylistique des clausules dans la prose latine. De Cicéron ŕ Pline le Jeune et de César ŕ Florus, Paris, 1966, 454 p. (Travaux de linguistique quantitative, 56).
Boldrini S., La prosodia e la metrica dei Romani, Rome, 1992, 206 p. (Studi superiori, Nuova Italia scientifica, 136). Traduction allemande :Prosodie und Metrik der Römer, Stuttgart, 1999, 183 p. CR: BMClR.
Bornecque H., Les clausules métriques latines, Lille, 1907, 616 p.
Crusius Fr., Römische Metrik. Ein Einführung. Neu bearbeitet von H. Rubenbauer, Munich, 8e éd., 1967, 148 p.
Drexler H., Einführung in die römische Metrik, Darmstadt, 2e éd., 1974, 200 p. (Die Altertumswissenschaft).
Halporn J.W., Ostwald M., Lateinische Metrik, Göttingen, 1962, 62 p.
Lindsay W.M., Early Latin Verse, Oxford, 1922, 372 p.
Luque Moreno J.,El dístico elegíaco. Lecciones de métrica latina, Madrid, 1994, 190 p.
Nougaret L., Traité de métrique latine classique, Paris, 3e éd., 1963, 134 p. (Nouvelle collection ŕ l'usage des classes, 36).
Platnauer M., Latin Elegiac Verse. A Study of the Metrical Usages of Tibullus, Propertius and Ovid, Cambridge, 1951, 122 p.
Polheim K., Die Lateinische Reimprosa, Berlin, 1925, 539 p.
Raven D.S., Latin Metre. An Introduction, Londres, 1965, 182 p.
Salvatore A., Prosodia e metrica latina. Storia dei metri e della prosa metrica, Rome, 1983, 161 p. (Guide allo studio della civiltŕ romana, IV, 5).
Schumann O., Kottke D., Vollmann B.K. [e.a.], Lateinisches Hexamente-Lexikon. Dichterisches Formelgut von Ennius bis zum Archipoeta, Munich, 7 vol., 1979-89 (Monumenta Germaniae historica. Hilfsmittel, 4): imposant recueil de ce que l'auteur appelle des formules, qu'il s'agisse de "deux mots revenant plusieurs fois ensemble ou d'un seul mot formant en quelque sorte cliché et déterminé par un nom, un adjectif ou un participe".
Soubiran J., Essai sur la versification dramatique des Romains: sénaire iambique et septénaire trochaďque, Paris, 1988, 493 p.
Thräde Kl., Der Hexameter in Rom. Verstheorie und Statistik, Munich, 1978, 168 p. (Zetemata, 71).
[ Plan de cette section ] [ Musique ] [ Bibliographie d'orientation ]
Time series modelling in the analysis of Greek metrics
A. Pawłowski, M. Krajewski, M. Eder
(University of Wrocław, Poland)
Quantitative character of Greek metrics is uncontested at the present state of research. Controversy concerns the rhythmical organisation of linguistic material. Many linguists claim that the sequence of short and long syllables is sufficient to generate the rhythm of text. For others, however, this condition seems insufficient. They argue that a special metrical stress, called ictus, was responsible for rhythmical organisation. Followers of this theory believe that in many cases ictus could coincide with the word stress. Followers and opponents of both theories do not restrain their argumentation to the linguistic material of Greek but often quote examples from Latin versification, based upon the Greek one. The discussion was summarised by A.J. Zajcev (ZAJCEV 1994:2225). The texts of ancient theorists of grammar, versification and music are not of much help because of their terminological opacity (ALLEN 1973:275276, ZAJCEV 1994:2627). The significant fact is, however, that there are no explicit remarks on this issue in classical literature. (SICKING 1993:11).
Nowadays, the self-confidence of the opponents of ictus (KORZENIOWSKI 1998:3439, LEONHARDT 1989:14, note 12) sharply contrasts with the timidity of attempts to reintroduce the notion of metrical stress into the theory of Greek versification, especially in the context of its oral performance (por. GLAU 1998:33: Anders als in der Metrik spielt also in der Rhytmik die Akzentuierung bestimmter Töne eine wichtige Rolle; declamations recorded on a CD supplementing this study leave no doubt that what the author means by Akzentuierungis precisely the dynamic metrical stress (ictus).
The first detailed question which arises is whether the rhythm can be generated solely by the sequence of short and long syllables, or whether it should be supported by the dynamic word stress. As has already been said, general research of rhythm confirms the presence of quantitative rhythm in classical Greek (ZAJCEV 1994:13). Sometimes this quantitative rhythm is reinforced by word stress e.g. in Delphic hymns from the 2nd c. B.C. (DEVINE & STEPHENS 1994:168169). Some theorists consider this phenomenon an intentional figure of speech (SNELL 1982:6, note 11, ZAJCEV 1994:21), while others treat it as purely an accidental coincidence (SICKING 1993:64).
Cautious attempts to recognise the role of word stress in Greek versification are the only concession of the opponents of the ictus theory. There are, however, some general arguments speaking in its favour. Although Russian verse, for instance, can be represented as a sequence of short and long syllables (ZAJCEV 1994:6), its prosody is not based on quantity but on other suprasegmental features (ibid. 1994:15). More arguments in favour of the theory of ictus, using the notion of metrical sandhi, are presented by Kuryłowicz (KURYłOWICZ 1975). The existence of ictus can be also supported by the evidence coming from the relationships of metrics and colloquial speech (KURYłOWICZ 1987:219234, DEVINE & STEPHENS 1994:102120). From the theoretical point of view, ictus would be a transposition of word stress (KURYłOWICZ 1987:160, 1972:34).
Many other, detailed arguments are used in the discussion of dynamic stress in classical Greek poetry. But contrary to the opinions held by numerous contemporary linguists and philologists, both general and detailed claims have not provided us with a convincing solution of this problem. We argue that the application of statistical tools seems to give some new insights into the issue.
Statistical methods of sequential data analysis have been so far underestimated and rarely applied in the research of metrics. With regard to the specificity of linguistic material, they can be divided into two groups:
probabilistic, i.e. based on qualitative (symbolic) sequences (e.g. metrical feet) (Xantos 2000);
numerical, i.e. based upon discrete time series;
In the probabilistic approach, the most frequently used methods are Shannons's theory of information and the theory of Markov chains (tested by Markov himself on linguistic material). Naturally symbolic character of text makes this approach very effective in the analysis of linguistic data. Its disadvantage is a relatively limited number of states of a treated series: very practical in the analysis of phonemes or distinctive features (limited number of states), it becomes inoperative in the analysis of lexical units (theoretically unlimited in number).
As far as the numerical approach is concerned, spectral analysis (e.g. Azar & Kedem 1979) and time series analysis (in the time domain) are applied (e.g. Pawłowski 1998). In both cases, the real time is represented by the sequences of units of the series. In some sense, both approaches are synthesised in the ARIMA method of Box and Jenkins (Box & Jenkins 1976). The advantage of the numerical approach is the possibility of processing the series composed of a very great number of different units (e.g. lexical items), provided they are reduced to a relevant and measurable feature (e.g. the length of an item). The other advantage is the transparency of a model, due to the stationarity of time series generated from texts (in this case conditions of stationarity can be admitted a priori, even without preliminary empirical tests). Also so called seasonal models, described by Box and Jenkins, are very useful in the description of versification in the text.
In the present study, Greek metrics is analysed by means of the ARIMA method. The corpus composed of ca hundred ten-syllable samples of Homer's Iliad was coded as binary sequences, representing either short (0) and long (1) syllables or stressed (1) and unstressed (0) ones. In this way, we obtained parallel, numerical representations of all the samples and modelled them in the time domain. Then we compared the results obtained for quantitative and stress-based coding. The analysis of the autocorrelation (ACF) and partial autocorrelation (PACF) functions suggests that in the case of quantitative series (short vs long syllables) the underlying stochastic process is modelled by the moving-average model MA(4). In the case of accentual sequences, the best fit was obtained with the autoregressive AR(2) model. The goodness of fit was measured by means of the method of residuals for each sample, we compared the percentage of the original variance explained by the model. The latter parameter is very important in the sequential analysis of text, because it can be considered a statistical, synthetic measure of orderedness in text.
The comparison of both types of series proves that:
both quantitative and stress-based sequences realise some underlying stochastic processes;
the depth of contextual relations equals ca 4 syllables in the case of quantitative series and exactly 2 syllables in the case of accentual series;
the average percentage of the original variance explained by the model is 47% in the case of quantitative series and it amounts to 60% for stress-based series;
This proves that the rhythm generated by Greek hexameter coded as a sequence of short and long syllables is weaker then the rhythm generated by the same samples, coded as sequences of stressed and unstressed syllables. If we admit that the rhythm is an inherent and universal feature of language prosody, affecting its aesthetic function but also facilitating the process of memorisation, (and this feature seems very important in Greek oral literature cases of persons knowing the whole Iliad by heart are reported in the literature), the result obtained would prove that ictus is not an artefact (ictus fictus) invented by old-fashioned nineteenth century German philologists, but a real component underlying Greek prosody and metrics.
References
Allen W.S. (1973), Accent and Rhythm. Prosodic Features of Latin and Greek. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Azar M., Kedem B. (1979), Some Time Series in the Phonetics of Biblical Hebrew. In: Bulletin of the Association of the Literary and Linguistic Computing (ALLC) 7/2, 111129.
Box George, Jenkins Gwilym (1976), Time series analysis: forecasting and control. San Francisco (etc.): Holden-Day.
Devine A. M., Stephens L. D. (1994), The Prosody of Greek Speech. New York, Oxford: Oxford University Press.
Chrisholm D. (1981), Prosodic approaches to twentieth-century verse. In: The ALLC Journal 1981/2, 3439.
Glau K. (1998), Rezitation griechischer Chorlyrik. Die Parodoi aus Aischylos' Agamemnon und Euripides' Bakchen als Tonbeispiel auf CD mit Text- und Begleiheft. Heidelberg: Universitätsverlag C. Winter.
Korzeniowski G. S.(1998), Verskolometrie und hexametrische Verskunst römischer Bukoliker. Göttingen: Vandenhoek&Ruprecht.
Kuryłowicz J. (1972), Podstawy jezykowe metryki starogerma(IQ(Bskiej [The Phonemic Fundamentals of the Old Germanic Metrics]. In: Biuletyn Polskiego Towarzystwa Jezykoznawczego 30, 315.
(1975), Metrik und Sprachgeschichte. Wrocław etc.: Ossolineum.
(1987), Studia jezykoznawcze. Wyb„r prac opublikowanych w jezyku polskim [Linguistic studies. Selected papers published in Polish]. Warszawa: PWN.
Leonhardt J. (1989), Dimensio syllabarum. Studien zur lateinischen Prosodie- und Verslehre von der Späntike bis zur frühen Renaissance. Mit einem ausführlichen Quellenverzeichnis bis zum Jahr 1600. Göttingen: Vandenhoek&Ruprecht.
Pawłowski Adam (1998), Séries temporelles en linguistique. Avec application à l'attribution de textes: Romain Gary et Émile Ajar. Paris, Genève: Champion-Slatkine.
Sicking C.M.J. (1993), Griechische Verslehre. München: C.H. Beck'sche Buchhandlung.
Snell B. (1982), Griechische Metrik, 4. erw. Aufl. Göttingen: Vandenhoek&Ruprecht.
West M. L. (1987), Introduction to Greek Metre. Oxford: Clarendon Press.
Xantos A. (2000), Entropizer 1.1: un outil informatique pour analyse séquentielle. In: M. Rajman, J.C. Chappelier (2000) (eds.), JADT 2000, Actes des 5es journées internationales d'analyse statistique des données textuelles. Lausanne: EPFL, 357364.
Zajcev A. I. (1994), Formirovanie drevnegre祳kogo geksametra [Formation of the old-Greek hexameter]. Sankt-Peterburg: Izdatelstvo Sankt-Peterburgskogo Universiteta.
http://www.nyu.edu/its/humanities/ach_allc2001/papers/pawlowski/
Dear John! Es Kedves Nereusz!
See:Michailides, Enciclopedia, limma 'metron'.[non korekt text! check-up]:) Kedves Nereusz, igazan nem szabad nagyon megbizni Michailidesben, de e pillanatban nincs keznel kony, mely tomoren szolna az alapfogalmakrol, igy jobb hijan vele indulunk. Azert el kell ismerni, hogy otven evvel ezelott uttoro munkanak szamitott zenei lexikona, melyenk eloszavat nem kisebb filologus es ozenetudos irta mint Winnington-Ingramm.
Nereusz Mester, ha tudsz ra idot szakitani, es ideirnad a szakkifejezesek helyes magyar formajat, halas lennek erte.:)
'metron' Aristeides szerint (A zenerol, Mb 49) a 'metron egy 'podon'(verslab?) szisztema, kulonbozo szotagokbol osszeallitva, szimmetrikus hosszusaggal. Kulonbozik a ritmustol reszeiben es egeszeben. A szo 'metron' a meiro igebol valo, ami annyit jelent mint diairo, felosztok. Het egyszeru'metron' ismert:
daktilus,
anapaesztus,
jambus,
tocheus,
chorijambus,
antiszpasztikus, ket jon, es a paeon.
Azon metron melynek utolso tagja(poda) teljes: akatalikta, vagy oloklira.
Az ahol az utolso 'poda' hianyos:
kataliktika.
A masodik esetben, a szotag mely hianyos, kitoltodik egy 'limma'-val (^)
Az orchesztikaban minden lepest 'metro'-nak neveznek, egy mozdulata a tancosnak, mely megegyezik a zenei ritmussal.
Bibliografia:
R. Westphal. Scriptores Metrici Graeci, I. kotet, Lipsia 1966
Hyphestionos, Ehiridion peri metron, 3-77
Longinosz, phil. rolegomena 81-94, 95-226
Wiilamovitz-Mollendorf, Greicheische Verkunst, Berlin, 1921.
W.IW.Koster, Traute de metrique grecque, 3. kiad. Leyden 1962.
Paul Maas, Greek metre, ford. Hugh Lloyd-Jones, Oxford 1962.
Amy M. Dale, The lyric Metres of Greek Drama 2, Cambridge 1968.
Scott, William C., Musical Design in Aeschylian Theater, (Hanover: University Press of New England,1984) ęáé
_______________, Musical Design in Sophoclean Theater, (Hanover: University Press of New England,1996)
Az iro praktikus erdeklodesbol, a gorog drama mai szinrevitelebol indul ki, a problematikus korus szereperol a dramaban. Tanulmanyozva a korus reszeket Aischulos es Sophokles muveiben, arra a kovetkeztetesre jut, hogy a zenei-metrikai technikak alkalmazasa, ( ismetles, metrikus parhuzamossagok) szerepe, csekely a poetikai tartalom erositeseben.
http://www.musicaviva.com/encyclopedia/index.tpl
Wednesdays 1-3, Davison Room, Music Building
I. Course requirements
There are essentially three requirements, each of which counts a third of the final grade:
A. Attendance & participation (33 1/3 %): To fulfill this requirement perfectly, one should attend every meeting of the seminar and participate in the discussion, demonstrating that one has actually done at least the assigned transcriptions and read at least the required readings. You are expected to prepare for each meeting of the seminar ahead of time by reading the relevant pages of the syllabus and doing the reading, transcription and listening assignments, before the meeting takes place, so that we can discuss them during that meeting.
Kedves H. G.!
Már ne haragudj, mindenki "in medias res" folytat egy ügyet - legfeljebb nem mindjárt az index törzsasztalánál kezdi, hanem az anyatejnél.
Engem az ógörög prozódia, ritmus érdekel, mást meg más. Erről szeretnék beszélgetni azokkal, akiknek hasonló az érdeklődésük.
A ion dialketusban a ritmus 'rismos'. A szo eloszor Archilochusnal jelenik meg:"gignoske d' oios rismos anthropous ehei", tudd meg, hogy egy (haraktiras) lelkiallapot iranyitja az embereket, es ez tartja oket fogva. Lasd. Berg PLG II, 401, 66. toredek [31], valamint Diehl Anth. Lyra. Gr.231, 67a toredek.
Mint latszik a fenti Archilochus toredekbol, a ritmus szo kezdetben hijan volt a zenei jelentesnek. Mint zenei fogalom foleg a 4. sz. i.e. hasznaltak. Aristoxenos volt az elso, aki szisztematikusan tanulmanyozta a ritmus jelenseget a zeneben. Az ogorog irok es teoretikusok kulonbozo ertelmezeset adtak a ritmusnak. Platon (Nomoi B', 665A)" ti di tis kiniseos taxei rithmos onoma eii" ritmusnak nevezzuk a mozgasok rendjet. Aristeides (Peri mous.31 Mb es R.P. Winnington-Ingramm) a kovetkezo meghatarozasat adja a ritmusnak: "rithmos toioun esti sustima ek hronon kata tina taxin sungeimenon" A ritmus tehat egy ido szisztema, mely valamely rendbe soroltatik". Bacheius (Eis.93) a kovetkezokeppen fogalmaz: "hronou katamerisis meta kiniseos ginomeni poias tinos" az ido merese, mely valamely mozgassal tortenik". Ugyano mas szerzok meghatarozasat is ismerteti. Aristoxenos teoriaja azon a felfogason alapul, hogy a ritmus magatol letezik, fuggetlenul barmely megjelenesi formajatol, es egyenletesen 'gordul" egy elvont kozegben (lasd: L. Laloy, Lexique d' Aristoxene, XXXI). "o ritmos pote den anameignuetai me to rithmiko uliko, alla dini kapoia taxi sto ritmizomeno" az 'anyag' amely rendezodik, (ritmizetai) az idot alkalmassa teve, hogy befogadja egyik a masikat, egyfele vagy masfele modon. A ritmus es a forma (morfi) hasonlitanak egymasra abban, hogy nics valosagos teruk. Valojaban a forma nem letezhet anyag nelkul melyet befogadhat. Hasonloan a ritmus egy megmutathato "mero elem" [stiheia] nelkul, hogy az idot kepes legyen feosztani, enelkul nem letezhet. Mert az ido nem oszthato fel onmagaban, leteznie kell valaminek, ami reszekre osztja. Igy, szuksegszeru, hogy a ritmusba fogott anyag, felfoghato reszekre kulonuljon el, mellyel aztan megvalosulhat az ido osztasa."
A ritmus "anyaga":"lexis, to melos kai i kinisi tou somatos", a szo, a dallam es a test mozgasa. Aristeides azt mondja, hogy a ritmus haromfelekeppen erzekelheto:a) optikusan (opsei)), mint a tancban, b) akusztikusan (akoui), mint a dallamban , c) mint a tapintas (afoi), mint az erek luktetese. A zeneben azonban a ritmus csak ket modon eszlelheto: optikusan es akusztikusan.
"rithmizo" ige, rendbe teszem, ritmizalom (szimmetrikusa teszem).
"rithmizomena" a ritmus eleme ( szotag, hang, mozgas, kezmozdulat)
Bibliografia:
R. Westphal, (a) System der antiken Rhythnik, Lipsia 1865
b)Metrik der Griechen, 1-2 kotet, Lipsia 1867-1868
c)Aristoxenos von Tarent, Melik und Rhytmik des klasischen Hellenentums, 1-2. kotet, Lipsia 1883-1893.
Carlo del Grande, L' espessione musicale dei poeti greci, Neapoli (Napoly?) 1932.
Georgiades, Der greichische Rhytmus, Musik.
Georgiades, Musik und Rhytmus bei der Greichen, Hamburg 1958
Reigen, Vers und Sprache,Hamburg 1949.
Emile Martin, Essai sur les rytmes de la chanson
grecque antikue. Parizs 1953.
Gevart. II, 1-240
Reinach. La mus. gr. 72-116.
A topic sem tobbre, sem kevesebbre probal torekedni, mint amit pontos cime mond: Ogorog ritmus - a kerdeskor feltarasa, megismerese, amennyire csak eronkbol telik.
Epp ellenkezoleg, magam is kerekezek, bar az utobbi idokben felretettem, mert az Athen utcain eletveszelyes. Megkisertett a gondolat, netan megprobaljam igazolni, hogy Demosztenesz kovetoi es ellenfelei nelkul nem letezne bicikli...:) Csak hat felo, hogy lehurrognanak a hozzaertok, mert ez oran toredelmesen bevallom, hogy magam is csak szereny tanulo vagyok az okori kerdesekben.
Tisztelettel:
Szpirosz
u.i.: majd elfelejtem megint, hogy a topicba eros idegzetu, kerekparozni is tudok jelentkezest varjuk, de a nyelvtudas sem haszontalan!
eszem ágában sincs bárhová is küldeni Téged a Törzsasztalról; csak arra céloztam, h. elég homályosan sikerült megfogalmaznod az indító hozzászólást. In medias res folytatsz egy ügyet, amit valahol máshol kezdtetek el, de ha a vulgus egy beavatatlan tagja benéz, h. miről is fog szólni ez a topik, annak csöppet sem kelted föl az érdeklődését ezzel a belterjeskedéssel. No, ave atque vale, megyek gyrost enni :)
Ui. Mi bajod a kerékpárosokkal, az a barbár szinonímája nálad? Biztosan hallottál a "What would Jesus drive" reklámkampányról -- mit gondolsz, manapság mivel közlekedne Diogenész?
Kedves H_G !
Ha zavar, megkerjuk a moderatort, helyezze oda a topicot, ahova velemenye szerint illik. Persze konnyu lenne gyors valaszokkal "igazolast" keresni, nemi retorikaval, szofizmssal ravezetni a "kerekparosokat" arra, hogy ha nem is tisztelik, azert elturheto hebe-hoba a regi ritmusokkal babralok jelenlete barmely szegleten a magyar eletnek. A haboru elotti magyar es jobb europai sajto, a "vonal alatt", az irodalmi, a tarca rovatokban, a legjobb tollu iroktol kozolt e filologiai temakban remek irasokat, gyongyszemeket. Nem az elit folyoiratokra, hanem a napilapokra is gondolok. Persze olvasoik a gimnaziumban latinul, gorogul is tanultak. Meg egy eszrevetel: a magyar kulturalis elet pezsgeset, vagy visszaeseset szepen lehet merni, az antik tanulmanyok viragzasaval, vagy hervadasaval.(Persze egeszen biztosan elmondhato ez az orientalisztikarol, vagy a matematikarol is.)Az antik tanulmanyok szinvonala es erintkezese a mindennapi elettel, a szellemi szabadsag egyik fokmeroje. Kedves H_G , gondolod, hogy mindez tulzas?
Tisztelettel:
Spiros
