Keresés

Részletes keresés

lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.04 0 0 5663
Nekem gyanús, mégpedig azért mert tudtommal (és a wiki szerint) Syro-Hittite-nek azokat a vaskori államokat hívják amelyek a Hettiata birodalom összeomlása után (ie 1180) alakultak.

Tehát vagy a dátum vagy az elnevezés tévesen van feltüntetve.
Előzmény: Törölt nick (5662)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5660

Auction Location: United Kingdom - 1995


Lot 43 : A Syro-Hittite Terracotta Figure Of A Horse circa 2000-1500 B.C. wearing horse-trappings and with a thick mane, 12cm; and Three Other Syro- Hittite Terracotta Animals, circa 2000- 1500 B.C. 6cm-7cm; 4

 

Lehet, hogy tévedtek az aukció szervezői???!!!

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5658)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5659

Auction Location: United Kingdom - 1995


Lot 43 : A Syro-Hittite Terracotta Figure Of A Horse circa 2000-1500 B.C. wearing horse-trappings and with a thick mane, 12cm; and Three Other Syro- Hittite Terracotta Animals, circa 2000- 1500 B.C. 6cm-7cm; 4

 

 

Lehet, hogy tévednek az aukció résztvevői.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5656)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5658
Mittani BC 1400 ind nyelvű lótréning.
Előzmény: jamaica2 (5657)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5657

Kikkuli, "master horse trainer (assussanni, virtually Sanskrit aśva-sana-from Kurdish Hesp Zan) of the land Mitanni" (A-AŠ-ŠU-UŠ-ŠA-AN-NI ŠA KUR URUMI-IT-TA-AN-NI) was the author of a chariot horse training text written in the Hittite language, dating to the Hittite New Kingdom (around 1400 BC). The text is notable both for the information it provides about the development of Indo-European languages and for its content.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5656)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5656

Since there are also four riders as cavalry and maybe with more behind it was surely enough. The riders have headgears with symbols new-moon, two horns, swine and bird of which the new moon maybe indicates the leader. Cavalry has always been a matter for the nobility. The Hittitians are known in the "civilised" world as the first real horsemen because we have evidence of their horse manual, stud and battle-chariot with metal wheels of course. But we do not know much about the influence from northern Asia. We have to look out for all "first-time labels" archaeology uses for making their field interesting.

 

A civilizált világ első lóhasználói a hettiták lennének????

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5655)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5655

ló vontatta kocsival történt a híres döntetlen csata a hettiták és az egyiptomiak között.

Előzmény: lyesmith (5653)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5653
"They may have been an Indo-European speaking people, possibly related linguistically to Tocharians (in north-west China) or early Kurds."

A kurdokkal egyet értek, de nem tudom, hogy hogyan lehetnének kapcsolatban a tokárokkal.

Szerintem ha ismerték is nem ülték meg. (hegyvidéki népként nem is biztos hogy használtak lovakat) Ugyanis ha megülték volna a ie2200 körül akkor a lovaglás ábrázolása hamarabb jelent volna meg a közel keleten. Az első lovas ábrázolás asszír ie 9. sz.
Előzmény: jamaica2 (5652)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5652
The Gutians were a people of ancient Mesopotamia who lived in the central Zagros Mountain range. Nothing is known about their origins. They may have been an Indo-European speaking people, possibly related linguistically to Tocharians (in north-west China) or early Kurds.

For around a generation they appeared in increasing numbers in Sumer and Akkad as settlers, to the extent that they required the royal appointment of an interpreter in Adab. However, shortly after about 2200 BC they swept down in force into southern and central Mesopotamia, destroying the Akkadian Empire and subjugating much of Sumer either directly or indirectly.

The Gutians proved to be very poor rulers of Sumer, being crude administrators, and prosperity declined. They were not at all used to the complexities of civilization and failed to provide proper organisation, particularly in connection with the canal network. This was allowed to sink into disrepair, with famine and death resulting. A short dark age swept over Mesopotamia. They based themselves near the ruins of Agade, so the cities in the south enjoyed a certain level of freedom, and were able to manage their own affairs to an extent.

According to the Sumerian king list, a total of 21 kings (MS P4+Ha has 23) ruled for 125 years and 40 days (MS P4+Ha has 99 years), once (one dynasty) in the army of Gutium. This is the seventeenth set of entries on the list comprising kings 98-118. Here, List 1 is primarily used, backed up by List 2 and List 3 (see Sumer for details). Dates are calculated back from circa 2120 BC, when the Gutians were ejected, and may not be entirely accurate.

 

 

Vajon a gutiak ismerték a lovat???

lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5649
Fogalmam sincs hogy a kalandozók milyen gyorsan haladtak.

A római légióktól elvárták hogy 32-40 km-t tegyenek meg 6 óra alatt teljes menetfelszerelésben egy átlagos napon.

Lóval se teszel meg többet napi 60-nál (rendszeresen).
Előzmény: hatodikk (5644)
ghoezeke mate Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5648
Ez a rengeteg szövegelés nem bizonyít semmit, fantáziálni én is tudok.
Előzmény: jamaica2 (5628)
ghoezeke mate Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5647
Azt mondod, amit én végül is. Háziállatként tarthatták, de felülni nem tudtak rá. A korai háziasított ló ráadásul vad lehetett, mint az ördög. Lehetetlen, hogy tömegesen hátalták volna. Próbálkozás elképzelhető, amíg az illető nyakát nem szegte.
Előzmény: lyesmith (5622)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5645

Mittani (Mezopotámia) leleteken ind nyelvű lótenyésztési szokincs található (mármint az írott táblákon). Tehát ez is egy bizonyíték az északi eredet valószínűségére a lovaglás és harcikocsi tekintetében.

Mezopotámiában félszamarakat használtak kocsihúzásra=onagereket.

Újabb leletek fényében a kerék feltalálására a sztyeppevidék  is jó eséllyel pályázhat Mezopotámia előtt.

Speciális magasított nyereggel lehet visszafelé nyilazni (pld a pártusoknak volt ilyen nyergük), de kardal felállni mint a kengyel esetében lehetséges, nem lehet.

 

hatodikk Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5644
Pontosítsuk. Vajon milyen menetteljesítmény jellemezte a magyar kalandozókat, és milyen mondjuk a keresztes hadak vonulását?
Előzmény: lyesmith (5643)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5643
Az lóval 5x nagyobb távolság persze nevetséges.
Előzmény: lyesmith (5642)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5642
Akkor is ha (mint Marco Polo írta a mongolokról) 18 váltólovat visz minden katona?

Amúgy egyet értek. Persze yalogos hasereg ritkán (ha nem példa nélkül) tesz meg 50-60 kmt egy nap.
Előzmény: Törölt nick (5641)
hatodikk Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5640

"Nem kell lóra ülni ahoz hogy nagyobb távolságot tegyen meg valaki. Éppen elég ha szekeret húzat lóval. "

 

Ez így igaz, ha van elég szekér hozzá.

 

"Tökéletesen figyelmen kívül hagyod a tényt hogy a lovakat nem csak megülni lehet hanem szekerek elé is be lehet őket fogni. "

 

Igazad van, még mindig. A szekér is lehetett fegyver, nem csak a kengyel. Viszont mindkettőhöz kellett a ló.

Előzmény: lyesmith (5638)
hatodikk Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5639

"1. " A törzsi központból gyalogosan elérhető távolságot megötszörözte, ami egyenletes népsürűség esetén 25-szörös népesség feletti uralmat jelentett"

Sikerült ezt a gyakorlatban bárkinek bizonyítani? Valszeg nem."

 

Olvasni kell a sokat átkozott Padányit is. Igen jól kitárgyalja a témát.

 

" Nem lótartó népek is hoztak létre hatalmas birodalmakat lsd inkák."

 

A földművelő népek hoztak létre nagy birodalmakat abban az esetben, ha a közelükben sivár vidék található. Az inkák nagy birodalmának kialakulását nem ismerem.

A lótartó népek nagy birodalmai viszonylag késői képződmények, azokra, mint birodalomképző késztetés" áttételesen a földművelő népek birodalmai hatottak.

 

"Nem lehet a lótartást ill a hatalmi koncentrációt összekötni. Főleg azért nem mert tény hogy a lótartás és lovaglás koncepciója gyorsan terjed hódítás nélkül is. lsd észak-amerikai préri indiánok."

 

A lótartás az ókori törzsi világban okozott hatalmi koncentrációt, mivel jóval nagyobb területet lehetett lóval felügyelet alatt tartani, mint az addigi módon, gyalog. Ez természetesen csak a törzsi létformában élő vadász-gyüjtögető törzsekre igaz, a földművelőkre nem.

Viszont. Csakis a tömeges lótartás jelentett harci előnyt, amikor nem kellett gyalogos közkatonákkal bajlódni. Az, hogy van egy főnök 10 lovassal körülvéve, még nem értékelhető harci szempontból.

 

Az észak-amerikai indiánokról: Ők a spanyoloktól szereztek lovat. És szinte azonnal megismerhették a puskát is. Ettől kezdve az indián társadalom nem egy szervesen fejlődő társadalom volt.

Előzmény: lyesmith (5638)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5638
Ezzel csak 2 baj van.

1. " A törzsi központból gyalogosan elérhető távolságot megötszörözte, ami egyenletes népsürűség esetén 25-szörös népesség feletti uralmat jelentett"

Sikerült ezt a gyakorlatban bárkinek bizonyítani? Valszeg nem. Nem lótartó népek is hoztak létre hatalmas birodalmakat lsd inkák. Nem lehet a lótartást ill a hatalmi koncentrációt összekötni. Főleg azért nem mert tény hogy a lótartás és lovaglás koncepciója gyorsan terjed hódítás nélkül is. lsd észak-amerikai préri indiánok.

2. Nem kell lóra ülni ahoz hogy nagyobb távolságot tegyen meg valaki. Éppen elég ha szekeret húzat lóval. Az IE terjedés pl egybeesik a szekerek elterjedésével. A hükszoszok pedig (egyébként valszeg nyugat sémi nép nem IE) nem ismerték a lovaglást csak a harci szekereket.


"de sztem az IE nyelv területi hódításai is a lovas harci módhoz köthetőek, vagyis úgy kr.e. 2500-3000 tájára lőhető be a lóra ülés dátuma."

Tökéletesen figyelmen kívül hagyod a tényt hogy a lovakat nem csak megülni lehet hanem szekerek elé is be lehet őket fogni. Arra van bizonyíték hogy az IE népek ismették a ló által húzott szekeret. Azonban arra nincs hogy megülték volna a lovat.

Van némi különbség a között hogy a háziállatot szekérhúzásra, teherhordásra használja egy nép és hogy harcban lovagol rajta.
Előzmény: hatodikk (5635)
hatodikk Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5635

" Nem lehet megmondani mikor szálltak lóra az emberek. "

 

Más oldalról megközelítve azért lehet szűkíteni a szóba jöhető időintervallumot. A lovaglás ugyanis hatalmas hatalmi koncentrációt eredményezett. A törzsi központból gyalogosan elérhető távolságot megötszörözte, ami egyenletes népsürűség esetén 25-szörös népesség feletti uralmat jelentett, ráadásul ez a huszonötszörös mennyiságű harcos ötszörös sebességgel mozgott egy háborúban. Aki lóra ült, annak olyan döntő fölénye volt a többiekkel (gyalogosokkal) szemben, aminek a történelemben is kellett nyomot hagyni. Tudtommal a hikszoszokkal tünt fel a harci ló az írott történelemben, de sztem az IE nyelv területi hódításai is a lovas harci módhoz köthetőek, vagyis úgy kr.e. 2500-3000 tájára lőhető be a lóra ülés dátuma.

Előzmény: lyesmith (5634)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.03 0 0 5634
Ezt mondtam. Nem lehet megmondani mikor szálltak lóra az emberek.

Tudtommal a kentaurokat a 9.sz-ban ábrázolták először. (Állítólag vanegy Mükénei ábrázolás a XIII.századi Ugaritból ) Vagyis gyakorlatilag az asszir lovas domborművel megegyező korból.

Tud valaki korábbi ábrázolást?

Előzmény: Törölt nick (5633)
lyesmith Creative Commons License 2009.03.02 0 0 5631
Valószínűleg a szarvasra is volt saját szavuk és azon se lovagoltak. :) Még akkor se ha szarvasokat használtak díszítő motívumul. Mirét gondolod hogy az természetes az embernek hogy felüljön egy állat hátára?

Sajnos a korai lovaglást nem nagyon lehet bizonyítani. Természetesen lovagolhattak de nincs rá bizonyíték.

Kérdés az hogy ha a sztyeppén már ie 4000 ben lovasok száguldoztak akkor miért nincs semmi művészi ábrázolás lovasokról. Se a suméreknél se az akkádoknál egyiptomiaknál, se sehol. pl a szekerhúzásról van.
Előzmény: jamaica2 (5630)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.02 0 0 5630
Őseink ismerték a lovat, saját szavuk volt rá csak nem lovagoltak vele. Ez inkább nagyon valószínű.
Előzmény: hatodikk (5614)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.02 0 0 5629
Már sokszor leírtam nem értek egyett Marija Gimbutas kurgán hipotézisével. A finugor néplánc mindegyik tagja ind-iráni és ősiráni jövevényszavakat tartalmaz, de PIE szavak nincsenek benne. Ez szerintem Gimbutas ellen a legjobb ellenbizonyíték. A PU PIE kapcsolatok a finnugor korszak előtti proto uráli proto indoeurópai tehát szvsz és sok finn-észt régész és Makkay János szerint felső paleolit kori.
Előzmény: jamaica2 (5628)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.02 0 0 5628

A szamara kultúra lakói hamizták a lovat vele temetkeztek, de nincs bizonyíték egyértelműen a lovaglásra.

 

The Samara culture was an eneolithic  (copper age) culture of the early 5th millennium BC at the Samara bend

Samara bend


The Samara bend is a large, backwards-C-shaped bend in the middle Volga River at the confluence of the Samara River....
 region of the middle Volga, discovered during archaeological excavations near the village of Syezzheye (???????) in Russia

Russia


Russia , also the Russian Federation , is a country that stretches over a vast expanse of Eurasia....
. The valley of the Samara river contains sites from subsequent cultures as well, which are descriptively termed "Samara cultures" or "Samara valley cultures". Some of these sites are currently under excavation. "The Samara culture" as a proper name, however, is reserved for the early Eneolithic of the region.

"Eneolithic" has a similar equivocal meaning. The Eneolithic culture of the region is a proper name, referring to the Samara culture, the subsequent Khvalynsk culture

Khvalynsk culture


The Khvalynsk culture was an Eneolithic culture of the first half of the 5th millennium BC, discovered at Khvalynsk on the Volga in Saratov Oblast, Russia....
 and the still later early Yamna culture. These are termed the early, middle (or developed) and late Eneolithic, respectively, with the substitution of period for culture; e.g., the Samara period. "Eneolithic" as a common name refers to any culture in the eneolithic stage of tool development. It does not refer to a time frame.

Samara culture sites

In addition to the name site mentioned above, other sites are Varfolomievka (on the Volga, actually part of the North Caspian culture) and Mykol'ske (on the Dnieper). Varfolomievka is as early as 5500 BC.

Indo-European Urheimat

These three cultures have roughly the same range. Marija Gimbutas

Marija Gimbutas


Marija Gimbutas Lithuanian-American archeologist, researcher of the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of "Old European Culture", a term she introduced....
 was the first to regard it as the Urheimat

Urheimat


Urheimat is a Linguistics term denoting the original homeland of the speakers of a proto-language....
 (homeland) of the Proto-Indo-European language

Proto-Indo-European language


The Proto-Indo-European language is the hypothetical common ancestor of the Indo-European languages that is believed to have been spoken in the 4th millennium BC in Central Asia, or as early as the 7th millennium BC in Anatolia, or in the 7th m...
 and to hypothesize that the Eneolithic culture of the region was in fact Indoeuropean. If this model is true, then the Samara culture becomes overwhelmingly important for Indo-European studies.

Most Indo-europeanists before Gimbutas had hypothesized these stages of development:

  • formation in a homeland on the steppes.
  • diaspora into Europe, the middle east, and the central Asian subcontinent.
  • formation of daughter languages over the now far-flung range.



Gimbutas applied the term kurgan

Kurgan


Kurgan is a Turkic word for tumulus, burial mound or barrow, heaped over a burial chamber, or a kurgan cenotaph....
 ("mound") to the cultures of the diaspora phase. Developed kurgans do not appear in the Eneolithic culture, but one can see them developing.

Horses See also Domestication of the horse

Domestication of the horse


There are a number of theories regarding the domestication of the horse. Although horses appeared in Paleolithic cave art as early as ca 30,000 BC, these were truly wild horses and were probably hunted for meat; how and when horses became domes...
.

The Samara period is not as well excavated or as well known as the other two. Gimbutas dated it to 5000 BC. The archaeological findings seem related to those of the Dnieper-Donets culture

Dnieper-Donets culture


Dnieper-Donets culture, ca. 5th—4th millennium BC. A neolithic culture in the area north of the Black Sea/Sea of Azov between the Dnieper and Donets River....
 with this noteworthy exception: horse

Horse


The horse is a large odd-toed ungulate mammal, one of ten modern species of the genus Equidae....
s.

Grave offerings included ornaments depicting horses. The graves also had an overburden of horse remains; it cannot yet be determined decisively if these horses were ridden or not, but they were certainly used as a meat-animal.

Central location

The range of the Samara culture is the forest-steppe terrain of the middle Volga, but the North Caspian culture of the lower Volga is early Eneolithic as well. In the context of the Kurgan

Kurgan


Kurgan is a Turkic word for tumulus, burial mound or barrow, heaped over a burial chamber, or a kurgan cenotaph....
 hypothesis, this range is regarded as a convenient place for speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language

Proto-Indo-European language


The Proto-Indo-European language is the hypothetical common ancestor of the Indo-European languages that is believed to have been spoken in the 4th millennium BC in Central Asia, or as early as the 7th millennium BC in Anatolia, or in the 7th m...
 to have exchanged some lexical items with Uralic

Uralic


Uralic can refer to:* Uralic languages* Uralic peoples...
-language-speakers. As a cross-roads between east and west, north and south, it must have received influences and stimulation from many peoples. Moreover, such a location would require a value orientation toward war and defense, which we know the Indo-europeans had. They were a warrior culture. They invaded cultures that Gimbutas claims were not bellicose in nature, despite non-hunting weapons found in graves.

Artifacts


 

Pottery

Pottery consists mainly of egg-shaped beakers with pronounced rims. They were not able to stand on a flat surface, suggesting that some method of supporting or carrying must have been in use, perhaps basketry or slings, for which the rims would have been a useful point of support. The carrier slung the pots over the shoulder or onto an animal.

The material of the pots is clay tempered with crushed shells.

Decoration consists of circumferential motifs: lines, bands, zig-zags or wavy lines, incised, stabbed or impressed with a comb. These patterns are best understood when seen from the top. They appear then to be a solar motif, with the mouth of the pot as the sun. Later developments of this theme show that in fact the sun is being represented. The religion even from the outset worshipped the light.

Graves

Graves are shallow pits for single individuals, but two or three individuals might be placed there. Some of the graves are covered with a stone cairn

Cairn


A cairn is a non-naturally occurring pile of stones erected by a person or persons. They are usually found in Upland and lowland , on moorland, or on mountaintops....
 or a low earthen mound, the very first predecessor of the kurgan. The later, fully developed kurgan was a hill on which the deceased chief might ascend to the sky god, but whether these early mounds had that significance is doubtful.

Sacrificial objects

The culture is characterized by the remains of animal sacrifice, which occur over most of the sites. Typically the head and hooves of cattle, sheep and horses are placed in shallow bowls over the human grave, smothered with ochre. Some have seen the beginning of the horse sacrifice in these remains, but this view has not been more definitely substantiated. We know that the Indo-europeans sacrificed both animals and people, but so did many other cultures.

Weapons

Indo-europeans would not be themselves without some sign of weapons. The graves do yield well-made daggers of flint and bone, placed at the arm or head of the deceased, one in the grave of a small boy. Weapons in the graves of children are common later.

Other weapons are bone spearheads and flint arrowheads.

Other grave gifts

Other carved bone figurines

Figurines


Figurines is an indie rock band from Denmark, formed in the mid-1990s. The band released their first EP, The Detour, in 2001 and their first full-length album, Shake A Mountain, in 2003....
 and pendant

Pendant


* protection* self-affirmation* ostentation.These purposes can be combined....
s were found in the graves. Most controversial are bone plaques of horses or double oxen heads. They are pierced. Were they pendants or harness parts, such as cheek pieces?

There is no indisputable evidence of riding. However, the large numbers of horse bones from later in the Eneolithic resemble a kill site, but the sites are settlement sites.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5627)
jamaica2 Creative Commons License 2009.03.02 0 0 5627
The Khvalynsk culture was an Eneolithic (copper age) culture of the first half of the 5th millennium BC, discovered at Khvalynsk

Khvalynsk


Khvalynsk is a river port types of settlements in Russia by the Volga River in Saratov Oblast, Russia....
 on the Volga in Saratov Oblast

Saratov Oblast


Saratov Oblast is a Federal subjects of Russia of Russia, located in the Volga Federal District....
, Russia. The culture also is termed the Middle Eneolithic or Developed Eneolithic or Proto-kurgan. It was preceded by the Early Eneolithic or Samara culture

Samara culture


The Samara culture was an eneolithic culture of the early 5th millennium BC at the Samara bend region of the middle Volga, discovered during archaeological excavations near the village of Syezzheye in Russia....
, from which it came, and succeeded by the Late Eneolithic, or Early Yamna culture, to which it descended.

Extent and DurationThe Khvalynsk culture extended from Saratov in the north to the North Caucasus in the south, from the Sea of Azov

Sea of Azov


The Sea of Azov is a northern section of the Black Sea, linked to the larger body through the Strait of Kerch....
 in the west to the Ural River

Ural River


Ural, known as Yaik before 1775, is a river flowing through Russia and Kazakhstan. It arises in the southern Ural Mountains and ends at the Caspian Sea....
 in the east.

A good sprinkling of calibrated C-14 readings obtained from material in the graves of the type site date the culture certainly to the approximate window, 5000-4500 BC. This material is from Khvalynsk I, or Early Khvalynsk. Khvalynsk II, or Late Khvalynsk, is Late Eneolithic.

Some regard Khvalynsk I as Early Eneolithic, contemporary with the Samara culture

Samara culture


The Samara culture was an eneolithic culture of the early 5th millennium BC at the Samara bend region of the middle Volga, discovered during archaeological excavations near the village of Syezzheye in Russia....
. Gimbutas

Marija Gimbutas


Marija Gimbutas Lithuanian-American archeologist, researcher of the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of "Old European Culture", a term she introduced....
, however, believed Samara was earlier and placed Khvalynsk I in the Developed Eneolithic. Not enough Samara culture dates and sites exist to settle the question.

Sites
The Khvalynsk type site is a cemetery, 30 m by 26 m, containing about 158 skeletons, mainly in single graves, but some two to five together. They were buried on their backs with knees contracted. Twelve of the graves were covered with stone cairns. Sacrificial areas were found similar to those at Samara, containing horse, cattle and sheep remains.

An individual grave was found in 1929 at Krivoluchie with grave goods

Grave goods


In archaeology and anthropology grave goods are the items interred along with the body.They are usually personal possessions, supplies to smooth the deceased's journey into the afterlife or offerings to the gods....
 and the remains placed on ochre, face up, knees contracted. A 67 m high earthen kurgan at Nalchik

Nalchik


Nalchik is a city in the Caucasus region of southern Russia and capital of the Kabardino-Balkaria....
, approximately thirty metres in diameter, contained 121 individual graves of remains placed face up, knees contracted, on ochre with a covering of stone.

ArtifactsKhvalinsk evidences the further development of the kurgan. It began in the Samara with individual graves or small groups sometimes under stone. In the Khvalinsk culture one finds group graves, which can only be communal on some basis, whether familial or local or both is not clear. With the advent of DNA testing, perhaps someday it will be.

Although there are disparities in the wealth of the grave goods, there seems to be no special marker for the chief. This deficit does not exclude the possibility of a chief. In the later kurgans, one finds that the kurgan is exclusively reserved for a chief and his retinue., with ordinary people excluded.

This development suggests a growing disparity of wealth, which in turn implies a growth in the wealth of the whole community and an increase in population. The explosion of the kurgan culture out of its western steppe homeland must be associated with an expansion of population. The causes of this success and expansion remain obscure.

We do know that metal was available both in the Caucasus and in the southern Urals. The Khvalynsk graves included metal rings and spiral metal rings. However, there is no indication of any use beyond ornamental. The quality of stone weapons and implements reaches a high point. The Krivoluchie grave, which Gimbutas viewed as that of a chief, contained a long flint dagger and tanged arrowheads, all carefully retouched on both faces. In addition is a porphyry axe-head with lug

Lug (knob)


A Lug is a typically flattened protuberance, a knob, or extrusion on the side of a vessel: pottery, jug, glass, vase, etc....
s and a haft hole. These artifacts are of types that not too long after appeared in metal.

There is also plenty of evidence of personal jewelry: beads of shell, stone and animal teeth, bracelets of stone or bone, pendants of boar tusk. The animals whose teeth came to decorate the putative Indo-Europeans are boar, bear, wolf , deer and others. Some of these teeth must have been difficult to acquire, a labor perhaps that led to a value being placed upon them. Whether they were money is not known.

The hard goods leave no record of any great richness. There is some evidence that wealth may have consisted of perishable goods. A recent study of the surface of the pottery (also of many cultures), which recorded contact with perishable material while the clay was wet, indicates contact with cords and embroidered woven cloth, which the investigators suggest were used to decorate the pot.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5626)
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De ez sem kutya ami most jön:

 

About 4200-4000 BC, more than 500 years before the geographic expansion evidenced by the presence of horse bones, new kinds of graves, named after a grave at SuvorovoHistory of Primorsky Krai

Primorsky Krai also known as Primorye , is a federal subject of Russia ....
, appeared north of the DanubeFacts About Danube

The Danube is the longest river of the European Union and Europe's second-longest ....
 delta in the coastal steppes of Ukraine near IzmailIzmail Summary

Izmail is a historic town near the Danube river in the Odessa Oblast of south-western Ukraine....
. Suvorovo graves were similar to and probably derived from earlier funeral traditions in the steppes around the Dnieper RiverDnieper River Summary

The Dnieper River is a river which flows from Russia through Belarus and then Ukraine....
. Some Suvorovo graves contained polished stone mace-heads shaped like horse heads and horse tooth beads. Earlier steppe graves also had contained polished stone mace-heads, some of them carved in the shape of animal heads. Settlements in the steppes contemporary with Suvorovo, such as Sredni Stog II and DereivkaDereivka

Dereivka is a site associated with the Sredny Stog culture dating ca....
 on the Dnieper River, contained 12%-52% horse bones.

When Suvorovo graves appeared in the Danube delta grasslands, horse-head maces also appeared in some of the indigenous farming towns of the Tripolye and GumelnitsaHamangia culture

Hamangia was a Middle Neolithic culture in the north of the Balkans, including the Danube area, whose evolution began during...
 cultures in present-day RomaniaRomania Overview

Romania: is a country in Southeastern Europe....
 and MoldovaMoldova

The Republic of Moldova is a landlocked country in eastern Europe, located between Romania to the west and Ukraine to the e...
, near the Suvorovo graves. These agricultural cultures had not previously used polished-stone maces, and horse bones were rare or absent in their settlement sites. Probably their horse-head maces came from the Suvorovo immigrants. The Suvorovo people in turn acquired many copper ornaments from the Tripolye and Gumelnitsa towns. After this episode of contact and trade, but still during the period 4200-4000 BC, about 600 agricultural towns in the Balkans and the lower Danube valley, some of which had been occupied for 2000 years, were abandoned. Copper mining ceased in the Balkan copper mines, and the cultural traditions associated with the agricultural towns were terminated in the Balkans and the lower Danube valley. This collapse of "Old Europe" has been attributed to the immigration of mounted Indo-European warriors. The collapse could have been caused by intensified warfare, for which there is some evidence; and warfare could have been worsened by mounted raiding; and the horse-head maces have been interpreted as indicating the introduction of domesticated horses and riding just before the collapse.

However, mounted raiding is just one possible explanation for this complex event. Environmental deterioration, ecological degradation from millennia of farming, and the exhaustion of easily mined oxide copper ores also are cited as causal factors.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5625)
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The oldest possible archaeological indicator of a changed relationship between horses and humans is the appearance about 4800-4400 BC of horse bones and carved images of horses in Chalcolithic graves of the early Khvalynsk cultureKhvalynsk culture

The Khvalynsk culture was an Eneolithic culture of the first half of the 5th millennium BC, discovered at Khvalynsk on the V...
 and the Samara cultureSamara culture

The Samara culture was an eneolithic culture of the early 5th millennium BC at the Samara bend region of the middle Volga, ...
 in the middle Volga region of Russia. At the Khvalynsk cemetery near the town of KhvalynskKhvalynsk

Khvalynsk is a river port town by the Volga River in Saratov Oblast, Russia....
, 158 graves of this period were excavated. Of these, 26 graves contained parts of sacrificed domestic animals, and additional sacrifices occurred in ritual deposits on the original ground surface above the graves. Ten graves contained parts of lower horse legs; two of these also contained the bones of domesticated cattle and sheep. At least 52 domesticated sheep or goats, 23 domesticated cattle, and 11 horses were sacrificed at Khvalynsk. The inclusion of horses with cattle and sheep and the exclusion of obviously wild animals together suggest that horses were categorized symbolically with domesticated animals.

At S’yezzhe, a contemporary cemetery of the Samara culture, parts of two horses were placed above a group of human graves. The pair of horses here was represented by the head and hooves, probably originally attached to hides. The same ritual—using the hide with the head and lower leg bones as a symbol for the whole animal—was used for many domesticated cattle and sheep sacrifices at Khvalynsk. Horse images carved from bone were placed in the above-ground ochre deposit at S’yezzhe and occurred at several other sites of the same period in the middle and lower Volga region. Together these archaeological clues suggest that horses had a symbolic importance in the Khvalynsk and Samara cultures that they had lacked earlier, and that they were associated with humans, domesticated cattle, and domesticated sheep. Thus, the earliest phase in the domestication of the horse might have begun during the period 4800-4400 BC.

 

A samara kultúra a Stredny stog kultúra szomjédja őt is indo-iráni kultúrának gondolják sokan. Szerintem nagy valószínűséggel mert a finnugor néplánc indo iráni ősiráni jövevényszavai ezt jól tanúsítják.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5623)
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De, hogy legyünk objektívek:

 

To better understand horse breeding and to provide data for seven models the author constructed, Levine cites oral histories she has gathered from five steppe nomads between 1989 and 1992. Using these data (a very minimal sample taken from two cultures over a wide geographic area) she compares the models and, in this light, reviews Dereivka and Botai horse bones and teeth. She concludes that the Dereivka horses, because of the small settlement size, the faunal assemblage, and the age and sex of the animals when killed, belong to her Stalking Model. This is a selective hunting technique, in which wild horses were stalked and killed, one at a time, with bow and arrow or spear. In contrast, Botai with its large population and immense quantity of horse bones is a better paradigm for the Herd Driving Model, a non-selective hunting technique that requires large-scale human cooperation and seasonal animal aggregation (p.43). She again concludes that at least the vast majority of the horses from Dereivka and Botai were wild and were killed in the hunt.

Other new studies develop collaboration between archaeologists and veterinarians to determine through analyses of their skeletons if horses were ridden, used in traction, or neither. A large assemblage of modern pathological material from known horses reveals that work related injuries occur on the foot bones, the hip, the shoulder and thoracic vertebrae. In the archaeological realm, riding injuries are noted on the small sample of horse skeletal material from Ak-alakha, the Ukok highland kurgans excavated in 1995 by N. Polosmak. However, Mongolian and Kazak saddles, in which the rider's weight rests on the rib cage and not the thoracic spine, could alleviate riding injuries and therefore could skew data. The author notes that although skeletal material from Dereivka was discarded, an enormous quantity remains at Botai and that skeletal pathological studies could clarify this question.

Levine concludes that we still do not know when or where the horse was first domesticated and, moreover, no single study (population structure, pleopathology, bit wear, taphonomy, etc.) can be conclusive.

Előzmény: jamaica2 (5623)
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The Sredny Stog culture (named after the Ukrainian village of Serednyi Stih where it was first located, for which Sredny Stog is the conventional Russian-language designation) dates from the 4500-3500 BC. It was situated just north of the Sea of Azov between the Dnieper and the Don. One of the best known sites associated with this culture is Dereivka.

It seems to have had contact with the agricultural Trypillian culture in the west, and was a contemporary of the Khvalynsk culture. There is a suggestion (by Yuri Rassamakin) that it should be considered an areal term, with at least four distinct cultural elements. The foremost expert on this culture (Dmytro Telegin) has divided Sredny Stog into two distinct phases. It was succeeded by the Yamna culture.

Inhumation was in a ground level pit, not yet capped by a tumulus (kurgan). The deceased was placed on his back with the legs flexed. Ochre was used. Phase II also knew corded ware pottery, which it may have originated, and stone battle-axes of the type later associated with expanding Indo-European cultures to the West. Most notably, it has perhaps the earliest evidence of horse domestication (in phase II, ca. 4000-3500 BC) with finds suggestive of cheek-pieces (psalia).

 

Tehát nem lócsontról beszélnek, hanem lószerszámról (psalia) zabláról.

Előzmény: ghoezeke mate (5620)

Ha kedveled azért, ha nem azért nyomj egy lájkot a Fórumért!