Keresés

Részletes keresés

spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 39

Igen, azt hiszem, hogy jo gondolat, ha parhuzamosan fut, mindket helyen a szoveg. Kivancsian varjuk folytatast. :)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 38
Átvihetjük a nyelvtani problémákat a másik topikba, viszont magát a fordítást itt írnám le továbbra is.

Egyébként jó, hogy írtad azokat a szótározásokat, mert felhívta a figyelmemet egy hibára, amire pedig direkt vigyáztam, mégis megtörtént. A dolog lényege, hogy az "eredeti" szöveg két nagyon régi kiadásban van meg: az egyik Jaques-Paul Migne Patrologia Graecae c. sorozatából (1857-1866), a másik a Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae c. forrásgyűjteményből (1839). Az előbbiben "λίθου πράγματα" szerepel, az utóbbiban viszont ezt a részt így írták a főszövegben: "ἄξια ... πράγματα". A jól látható kihagyáshoz egy lábjegyzetet írtak. Eszerint a kérdéses helyen lehet: "ἄξια λιθιου" vagy "λίθου" vagy (kifejezetten a fordító szerint) "λογου". Mivel egyéb helyeken is feltűntek különbségek, ezért megnéztem, hogy az általad közölt szövegrész nem üt-e el az általam használtaktól, mert az egyszerűség kedvéért azt másoltam a saját hozzászólásomba, de a "λόγου"-n átsiklottam, és nem írtam át. Én anno a "λίθου"-t használtam, mert az mindkét fordításánál előkerült, valami miatt a Corpus fordítójának ajánlását (λόγου) nem vettem észre.
Hozzáteszem, lehet, hogy rosszabbul jártunk volna, ha hibámat kijavítva eltűnik a különbség a görög és a magyar szöveg között.

A "λόγου πράγματα" szerintem értelmesebb, főképpen az előszó ezen részének mondanivalóját tekintve.
Előzmény: spiroslyra (37)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 37

Jo hogy alkalmat adsz szoveg bongeszesre, szavak keresesere. :) Remelem nem remisztjuk meg vele Javort. Persze en csak peldamondatok keresesere, szotarazasra vallalkozom, a grammatikahoz sajnos ''botfulu'' vagyok. Mit szolnal, ha atvinnenk ezen kerdeseket az ogorogozobe is, ahol talan segitseget, tanacsot kaphatnank a szoveg jobb megertesehez, pontositasahoz?
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 36

lithos [i^], ou, o( (v. infr. 11),

A. stone, Hom., etc.; esp. of the stones thrown by warriors, trêchus l., l. okrioeis, Il.5.308, 8.327; also, stonequoit, Od.8.190; helesthai . . ek gaias lithon A.Fr.199.4 ; of building- stones, lithoi basilikoi PSI4.423.28 , PCair.Zen.499.20 (both iii B.C.): prov., en panti gar toi skorpios phrourei lithôi S.Fr.37 ; lithon hepsein 'to lose one's labour', Ar.V.280; also of stupid persons, 'blockheads', lithoi Id.Nu.1202 , cf. Thgn.568, Pl.Hp.Ma.292d, Gal.9.656; l. tis, ou) dou/lh Herod.6.4; prosêgoreuthê dia to mê phronein l., of Niobe, Philem.101; hôsper lithon zên Pl.Grg.494a sq.; lithôi laleis prov. of anaisthêtoi, Macar.5.61.

2. stone as a substance, opp. wood, flesh, etc., epei ou sphi l. chrôs oude sidêros Il.4.510 ; laous de lithous poiêse turned into stone, petrified, 24.611, cf. Pl.Smp.198c; so [nêa] theinai l. Od.13.156 ; as an emblem of hard-heartedness, soi d' aiei kradiê stereôterê esti lithoio 23.103 , cf. Theoc.3.18.

II. lithos, hê, twice in Hom., Il.12.287, Od.19.494, just like masc., also in Theoc.7.26, Bion Fr.1.2: later mostly of some special stone, as the magnet is called Magnêtis l. by E.Fr.567 (but hê lithos simply in Democr.11k, Arist.Ph. 267a2, cf. v.l. de An.405a20); also Ludia l. by S.Fr.800 (but in B.Fr. 10 J. Ludia l. = touchstone); Hêrakleia l. by Pl.Ion533d, Epicur.Fr. 293; so of a touchstone, Pl.Grg.486d; hê diaphanês l. a piece of crystal used for a burning-glass, Ar.Nu.767, cf. Luc.Alex.21; chutê l. was perh. a kind of glass, and so an older name for hualos, Epin.1.8 (the same thing as the artêmata lithina chuta in Hdt.2.69; cf. tên hualon . . hosa te lithôn chuta eidê kaleitai Pl.Ti.61c ); l. = precious stone is fem. in Hp.Nat.Mul.99, IG22.1421.92, 1460.21, but masc. in Hdt.2.44, etc.; in the sense of marble mostly masc., leukos l. Id.4.87 (simply lithos 1.164 ), S.Fr.330 (leukoi l. is opp. petrinoi l. Supp.Epigr.4.446.8 (Didyma)); Parios l. Pi.N.4.81 , Hdt.3.57; Tainarios l. Str.8.5.7 ; l. Thasios, Aiguptios, etc., Paus.1.18.6, etc.; konchitês Id.1.44.6 ; konchuliatês X.An.3.4.10 ; but Paria l. Theoc.6.38 , Luc.Am.13; cf. luchnias, -itês; pôrinos l. tufa, Hdt.5.62.

2. collectively, pephuke lithos . . aphthonos, ex hou . . X.Vect.1.4.

III. grave-stone (fem.), Call.Epigr.8.1.

IV. at Athens, lithos, ho, was a name for various blocks of stone used for rostra or platforms, as,

1. the bêma (q.v.) of the Pnyx, Ar.Ach.683, Pax 680, Ec.87.

2. another in the agora used by the kêrukes, Plu.Sol.8; prob. the same as ho pratêr l., on which the auctioneer stood when selling slaves, etc., Poll.3.78, cf. 126.

3. an altar in the agora, at which the Thesmothetae, arbitrators, and witnesses took their oaths, Philoch.65, D.54.26 (restored from Harp. s.v. lithos), Arist.Ath.7.1, 55.5, Plu.Sol.25; cf. lithômotês.

4. two stones on which litigants stood in the Areopagus, Paus.1.28.5.

V. piece on a draughtboard, Alc.82, Theoc. 6.18, cf. grammê 111.1 : hence pron., panta lithon kinein Zen.5.63 (who explains it differently).

VI. Medic., stone in the bladder, calculus, Arist.HA519b19, Hp.Morb.4.55, al.

VII. Dia lithon omnunai, = Lat. Jovem lapidem jurare, Plb.3.25.6.

VIII. lithoi chalazês hail- stones, LXX Jo.10.11.

IX. l. ho ou l. the philosophers' stone, Zos. Alch.p.122 B.
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 35
petra , Ion. and Ep. petrê , hê,

A. rock; freq. of cliffs, ledges, etc. by the sea, lissê aipeia te eis hala petrê Od.3.293 , cf. 4.501, etc.; chôros leios petraôn free from rocks, of a beach, 5.443 ; p. êlibatos . . halos engus eousa Il.15.618 , etc.; choiras p. Pi.P.10.52; also, rocky peak or ridge, aigilips p. Il.9.15, etc.; êlibatos 16.35 , etc.; littas p. Corinn.Supp.1.30, cf.A.Supp.796 (lyr.); p. Lenkas, *'ôleniê, etc., Od.24.11, Il.11.757, etc.; p. sundromoi, Sumplêgades, Pi.P.4.209, E.Med.1264(lyr.); pros petrais hupsêlokrêmnois, of Caucasus, A.Pr.4, cf. 31, 56, al.; p. Delphis, p. dilophos, of Parnassus, S.OT464(lyr.), Ant.1126(lyr.); p. Kôrukis A.Eu.22 ; p. Kekropia, of the Acropolis, E.Ion936.

2. p. glaphurê a hollow rock, i.e. a cave, Il.2.88, cf. 4.107; speos koilêi hupo p. Hes. Th.301; distomos p. cave in the rock with a double entrance, S.Ph.16, cf. 937; katêrepheis autêi têi p. Pl.Criti.116b; p. antrôdês X.An.4.3.11 ; topos kuklôi petrais periechomenos IG42(1).122.21 (Epid.); heôs tês p. down to virgin rock, PCair.Zen.172.14 (iii B.C.), OGI672 (Egypt, i A. D.), cf. Ev.Matt.16.18.

3. mass of rock or boulder, Od.9.243, 484, Hes.Th.675 ; petras kulindomena phlox Pi.P.1.23 ; ekulindoun petras X.An.4.2.20 , cf. Plb.3.53.4.

4. stone as material, p. lartia, Têïa, SIG581.97 (Crete, iii/ii B. C.), 996.13 (Smyrna, i A. D.): distd. from petros (q. v.), which is v.l. in X.l.c.; petrai shd. be read in S.Ph.272 ; the distn. is minimized by Gal.12.194.

II. prov., ouk apo druos oud' apo petrês, etc. (v. drus); as a symbol of firmness, ho d' estathê êüte p. empedon Od.17.463 ; of hard-heartedness, ek petras eirgasmenos A.Pr.244 ; halian p. ê kuma litais ôs hiketeuôn E.Andr. 537 (anap.); cf. petros 1.2 . (Written pe-te-ra in a text with musical accompaniment, Pae.Delph.5.)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 34

A ko petra, lithos, nem latom a szovegben.
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 33

logos , ho, verbal noun of legô (B), with senses corresponding to legô (B) II and III (on the various senses of the word v. Theo Sm.pp.72,73 H., An.Ox.4.327): common in all periods in Prose and Verse, exc. Epic, in which it is found in signf. derived from legô (B) 111, cf.infr. VI. 1 a:

I. computation, reckoning (cf. legô (B) II).

1. account of money handled, sanides eis has ton l. anagraphomen IG12.374.191 ; edidosan ton l. ib.232.2; l. dôseis tôn metecheirisas chrêmatôn Hdt.3.142 , cf. 143; oute chrêmata diacheirisas tês poleôs didômi l. autôn oute archên arxas oudemian euthunas hupechô nun autês Lys.24.26 ; l. apenenkein Arist.Ath.54.1 ; en tais euthunais tou toioutou l. hupechetô Pl.Lg.774b ; ton tôn chrêmatôn l. para toutôn lambanein D.8.47 ; adikêmata eis arguriou l. anêkonta Din.1.60 ; sunarai logon meta tinos settle accounts with, Ev.Matt.18.23, etc.; deuteroi l. a second audit, Cod.Just.1.4.26.1; ho trapezitikos l. banking account, Theo Sm.p.73 H.: metaph., ouk an priaimên oudenos l. broton S.Aj.477 .

b. public accounts, i. e. branch of treasury, idios l., in Egypt, OGI188.2, 189.3, 669.38; also as title of treasurer, ib.408.4, Str.17.1.12; ho epi tôn l. IPE2.29 A (Panticapaeum); dêmosios l., = Lat. fiscus, OGI669.21 (Egypt, i A.D.), etc. (but later, = aerarium, Cod.Just.1.5.15); also Kaisaros l. OGI669.30 ; kuriakos l. ib.18.

2. generally, account, reckoning, mê phunai ton hapanta nikai l. excels the whole account, i.e. is best of all, S.OC 1225 (lyr.); dontas l. tôn epoiêsan accounting for, i.e. paying the penalty for their doings, Hdt.8.100; l. aitein Pl.Plt.285e ; l. dounai kai dexasthai Id.Prt.336c , al.; lambanein l. kai elenchein Id.Men.75d ; paraschein tôn eirêmenôn l. Id.R.344d ; l. apaitein D.30.15 , cf. Arist. EN1104a3; l. hupechein, dounai, D.19.95; l. engrapsai Id.24.199 , al.; l. apopherein têi polei Aeschin.3.22 , cf. Eu. Luc.16.2, Ep.Hebr.13.17; to paradoxon tôn sumbebêkotôn hupo logon agein Plb.15.34.2 ; l. hê epistêmê, polla de ho l. the account is manifold, Plot.6.9.4; echôn logon tou dia ti an account of the cause, Arist.APo.74b27; es l. tinos on account of, es chrêmatôn l. Th.3.46 , cf. Plb.5.89.6, LXX 2 Ma1.14, JRS 18.152 (Jerash); logôi c. gen., by way of, Cod.Just.3.2.5. al.; kata logon tou megethous if we take into account his size, Arist.HA517b27; pros hon hêmin ho l. Ep.Hebr.4.13 , cf. D.Chr.31.123.

3. measure, tale (cf. infr. 11.1), thalassa . . metreetai es ton auton l. hokoios prosthen Heraclit.31 ; psuchês esti l. heauton auxôn Id.115 ; es toutou (sc. gêraos) l. ou polloi tines apikneontai to the point of old age, Hdt.3.99, cf.7.9.b; ho xumpas l. the full tale, Th.7.56, cf. Ep.Phil.4.15; koinôi l. nomisanta common measure, Pl.Lg.746e; sum, total of expenditure, IG42(1).103.151 (Epid., iv B.C.); ho tês ousias l., = Lat. patrimonii modus, Cod.Just.1.5.12.20.

4. esteem, consideration, value put on a person or thing (cf. infr. VI. 2 d), hou pleiôn l. ê tôn allôn who is of more worth than all the rest, Heraclit.39; brotôn l. ouk eschen ouden' A.Pr.233; ou smikrou l. S.OC1163 : freq. in Hdt., Mardoniou l. oudeis ginetai 8.102 ; tôn ên elachistos apollumenôn l. 4.135 , cf. E.Fr.94; peri emou oudeis l. Ar.Ra.87 ; logou oudenos ginesthai pros tinos to be of no account, repute with.., Hdt.1.120, cf.4.138; logou poiêsasthai tina make one of account, Id.1.33; elachistou, pleistou l. einai, to be highly, lowly esteemed, Id.1.143, 3.146; but also logon tinos poieisthai, like Lat. rationem habere alicujus, make account of, set a value on, Democr.187, etc.: usu. in neg. statements, oudena l. poiêsasthai tinos Hdt.1.4 , cf. 13, Plb.21.14.9, etc.; l. echein Hdt.1.62 ,115; l. ischein peri tinos Pl.Ti.87c ; l. echein peri tous poiêtas Lycurg.107 ; l. echein tinos D.18.199 , Arist.EN1102b32, Plu.Phil.18 (but also, have the reputation of . . , v. infr. VI. 2 e); en oudeni l. poiêsasthai ti Hdt.3.50 ; en oudeni l. apôlonto without regard, Id.9.70; en smikrôi l. einai Pl.R.550a ; humeis out' en l. out' en arithmôi Orac. ap. Sch.Theoc.14.48; en andrôn l. [einai] to be reckoned, count as a man, Hdt.3.120; en idiôteô logôi kai atimou reckoned as . . , Eus.Mynd.Fr. 59; semnos eis aretês l. kai doxês D.19.142 .

II. relation, correspondence, proportion,

1. generally, huperteriês l. relation (of gold to lead), Thgn.418 = 1164; pros logon tou sêmatos A.Th.519 ; kata logon probainontes timôsi in inverse ratio, Hdt.1.134, cf. 7.36; kata l. tês apophorês Id.2.109 ; talla kata l. in like fashion, Hp.VM16, Prog.17: c. gen., kata l. tôn prosthen ib. 24; kata l. tôn hêmerôn Ar. Nu.619 ; kata l. tês dunameôs X. Cyr.8.6.11 ; elattô ê kata l. Arist. HA508a2 , cf. PA671a18; ek tautês egeneto ekeinê kata l. Id.Pol. 1257a31 ; cf. eulogos: sts. with ho autos added, kata ton auton l. tôi teicheï in fashion like to . . , Hdt.1.186; peri tôn nosôn ho autos l. analogously, Pl.Tht.158d, cf. Prm.136b, al.; eis ton auton l. similarly, Id.R.353d; kata ton auton l. in the same ratio, IG12.76.8; by parity of reasoning, Pl.Cra.393c, R.610a, al.; ana logon tinos, tini, Id.Ti.29c, Alc.2.145d; touton echei ton l. pros . . hon hê paideia pros tên aretên is related to . . as . . , Procl.in Euc.p.20 F., al.

2. Math., ratio, proportion (ho kat' analogon l., l. tês analogias, Theo Sm.p.73 H.), Pythag. 2; isotês logôn Arist.EN113a31 ; l. esti duo megethôn hê kata pêlikotêta poia schesis Euc.5 Def.3; tôn harmoniôn tous l. Arist.Metaph.985b32 , cf. 1092b14; logoi arithmôn numerical ratios, Aristox.Harm.p.32 M.; tous phthongous anankaion en arithmou l. legesthai pros allêlous to be expressed in numerical ratios, Euc.Sect.Can. Proëm.: in Metre, ratio between arsis and thesis, by which the rhythm is defined, Aristox.Harm.p.34 M.; ean êi ischurotera tou aisthêtêriou hê kinêsis, luetai ho l. Arist.de An. 424a31 ; ana logon analogically, Archyt.2; ana l. meristheisa [hê psuchê] proportionally, Pl. Ti.37a; so kata l. Men.319.6 ; pros logon in proportion, Plb.6.30.3, 9.15.3 (but pros logon epi stenon sunagetai narrows uniformly, Sor. 1.9, cf. Diocl.Fr.171); epi logon IG5(1).1428 (Messene).

3. Gramm., analogy, rule, tôi l. tôn metochikôn, tês sunkopês, by the rule of the participles, of syncope, Choerob. in Theod.1.75 Gaisf., 1.377 H.; eipe moi ton l. tou Aias Aiantos, toutesti ton kanona An.Ox. 4.328 .

III. explanation,

1. plea, pretext, ground, ek tinos l.; A.Ch.515; ex oudenos l. S.Ph.731 ; apo pantos l. Id.OC762 ; chô l. kalos prosên Id.Ph.352 ; sun aphanei l. Id.OT657 (lyr., v.l. logôn); en aphanei l. Antipho 5.59 ; epi toioutôi l. Hdt.6.124 ; kata tina l.; on what ground? Pl.R.366b; oude pros hena l. to no purpose, Id.Prt. 343d; epi tini l.; for what reason? X.HG2.2.19; ton l. touton this ground of complaint, Aeschin.3.228; tini dikaiôi l.; what just cause is there? Pl.Grg.512c; tini l.; on what account? Act.Ap.10.29; kata logon an êneschomên humôn reason would that . . , ib.18.14; l. echein, with personal subject, eichon an tina l. I (i.e. my conduct) would have admitted of an explanation, Pl.Ap.31b; ton orthon l. the true explanation, ib.34b.

b. plea, case, in Law or argument (cf. VIII. I), ton hêttô l. kreittô poiein to make the weaker case prevail, ib.18b, al., Arist.Rh.1402a24, cf. Ar.Nu.1042 (pl.); personified, ib.886, al.; amuneis tôi tês hêdonês l. Pl.Phlb.38a ; anoiseis tous l. autôn pros ton theon LXXEx.18.19 ; echein l. pros tina to have a case, ground of action against . . , Act.Ap.19.38.

2. statement of a theory, argument, ouk emeu alla tou l. akousantas prob. in Heraclit.50; logon êde noêma amphis alêtheiês discourse and reflection on reality, Parm.8.50; dêloi houtos ho l. hoti . . Democr.7; ouk echei logon it is not arguable, i.e. reasonable, S.El.466, Pl.Phd.62d, etc.; echei l. D.44.32 ; oudeis auta katabalei l. E.Ba.202 ; dikason . . ton l. akousas Pl.Lg.696b ; personified, phêsi houtos ho l. ib.714d, cf. Sph.238b, Phlb.50a; hôs ho l. (sc. legei) Arist.EN1115b12; hôs ho l. ho orthos legei ib. 1138b20, cf. 29; ho l. thelei prosbibazein Phld.Rh.1.41 , cf.1.19 S.; ou gar an akouseie logou apotrepontos Arist.EN1179b27 ; l. kathairôn Aristo Stoic.1.88 ; logou tunchanein to be explained, Phld.Mus.p.77 K.; ho ton l. mou akouôn my teaching, Ev.Jo.5.24; ho prophêtikos l., collect., of VT prophecy, 2 Ep.Pet.1.19: pl., hokosôn logous êkousa Heraclit.108 ; ouk epitheto tois emois l. Ar.Nu.73 ; of arguments leading to a conclusion ( [ho l.] ), Pl. Cri.46b; ta Anaxagorou biblia gemei toutôn tôn l. Id.Ap.26d ; l. apo tôn archôn, epi tas archas, Arist.EN1095a31; sullogismos esti l. en hôi tethentôn tinôn ktl. Id.APr.24b18; l. antitupos te kai aporos, of a self-contradictory theory, Plot.6.8.7.

b. ho peri theôn l., title of a discourse by Protagoras, D.L.9.54; ho Achilleus l., name of an argument, ib.23; ho auxomenos l. Plu.2.559b ; kataballontes (sc. logoi), title of work by Protagoras, S.E.M.7.60; l. sophistikoi Arist.SE 165a34 , al.; hoi mathêmatikoi l. Id.Rh.1417a19 , etc.; hoi exôterikoi l., current outside the Lyceum, Id.Ph.217b31, al.; Dissoi l., title of a philosophical treatise (= Dialex.); L. kai Logina, name of play of Epicharmus, quibble, argument, personified, Ath.8.338d.

c. in Logic, proposition, whether as premiss or conclusion, protasis esti l. kataphatikos ê apophatikos tinos kata tinos Arist.APr.24a16 .

d. rule, principle, law, as embodying the result of logismos, Pi.O.2.22, P.1.35, N.4.31; peithesthai tôi l. hos an moi logizomenôi beltistos phainêtai Pl.Cri.46b , cf. c; hêdonas tois orthois l. hepomenas obeying right principles, Id.Lg.696c; proaireseôs [archê] orexis kai l. ho heneka tinos principle directed to an end, Arist.EN1139a32; of the final cause, archê ho l. en te tois kata technên kai en tois phusei sunestêkosin Id.PA639b15 ; apodidoasi tous l. kai tas aitias hou poiousi hekastou ib.18; [technê] hexis meta l. alêthous poiêtikê Id.EN1140a10 ; orthos l. true principle, right rule, ib.1144b27, 1147b3, al.; kata logon by rule, consistently, ho kata l. zôn Pl.Lg.689d , cf. Ti.89d; to kata l. zên, opp. kata pathos, Arist.EN1169a5; kata l. prochôrein according to plan, Plb.1.20.3.

3. law, rule of conduct, hôi malista diênekôs homilousi logôi Heraclit.72 ; polloi logon mê mathontes zôsi kata logon Democr.53 ; dei huparchein ton l. ton katholou tois archousin universal principle, Arist.Pol.1286a17; ho nomos . . l. ôn apo tinos phronêseôs kai nou Id.EN1180a21 ; ho nomos . . empsuchos ôn heautôi l. conscience, Plu. 2.780c; ton l. procheiron echein precept, Phld.Piet.30, cf. 102; ho prostaktikos tôn poiêteôn ê mê l. koinos M.Ant.4.4 .

4. thesis, hypothesis, provisional ground, hôs an ei legoi logon maintain a thesis, Pl. Prt.344b; hupothemenos hekastote l. provisionally assuming a proposition, Id.Phd.100a; ton tês homoiotêtos l. hypothesis of equivalence, Arist.Cael.296a20.

5. reason, ground, pantôn ginomenôn kata ton l. tonde Heraclit.1 ; houtô bathun l. echei Id.45 ; ek logou, opp. matên, Leucipp. 2; megiston sêmeion houtos ho l. Meliss.8 ; [empeiria] ouk echei l. oudena hôn prospherei has no grounds for . . , Pl.Grg.465a; meta logou [p. 1058] te kai epistêmês theias Id.Sph.265c ; hê meta logou alêthês doxa ( [ epistêmê] ) Id.Tht.201c; logon zêtousin hôn ouk esti l. proof, Arist. Metaph.1011a12; hoi hapantôn zêtountes l. anairousi l. Thphr.Metaph. 26 .

6. formula (wider than definition, but freq. equivalent thereto), term expressing reason, l. tês politeias Pl.R.497c ; psuchês ousia te kai l. essential definition, Id.Phdr.245e; ho tou dikaiou l. Id.R.343a ; ton l. tês ousias ib.534b, cf. Phd.78d; tas pollas epistêmas heni l. proseipein Id.Tht.148d ; ho tês oikodomêseôs l. echei ton tês oikias Arist. PA646b3 ; tetheiê an idion onoma kath' hekaston tôn l. Id.Metaph.1006b5 , cf. 1035b4; pas horismos l. tis esti Id.Top.102a5 ; epi tôn schêmatôn l. koinos generic definition, Id.de An.414b23; akribestatos l. specific definition, Id.Pol.1276b24; pêgês l. echon Ph.2.477 ; to ôion oute archês echei l. fulfils the function of . . , Plu.2.637d; l. tês mixeôs formula, i. e. ratio (cf. supr. II) of combination, Arist.PA642a22, cf. Metaph.993a17.

7. reason, law exhibited in the world-process, kata logon by law, kosmôi panta kai kata l. echonta Pl.R.500c ; kat ton l. by the same law, Epich.170.18; psuchês to pan tode dioikousês kata l. Plot.2.3.13 ; esp. in Stoic Philos., the divine order, ton tou pantos l. hon enioi heimarmenên kalousin Zeno Stoic.1.24 ; to poioun ton en [têi hulêi] l. ton theon ibid., cf. 42; ho tou kosmou l. Chrysipp.Stoic.2.264 ; logos, = phusei nomos, Stoic.2.169; kata ton koinon theois kai anthrôpois l. M.Ant.7.53 ; ho orthos l. dia pantôn erchomenos Chrysipp.Stoic.3.4 : so in Plot., tên phusin einai logon, hos poiei l. allon gennêma hautou 3.8.2 .

b. spermatikos l. generative principle in organisms, ho theos sp. l. tou kosmou Zeno Stoic.1.28 : usu. in pl., Stoic. 2.205,314,al.; ginetai ta en tôi panti ou kata spermatikous, alla kata l. perilêptikous Plot.3.1.7 , cf.4.4.39: so without spermatikos, hôsper tines l. tôn merôn Cleanth.Stoic.1.111 ; hoi l. tôn holôn Ph.1.9 .

c. in Neo-Platonic Philos., of regulative and formative forces, derived from the intelligible and operative in the sensible universe, ontôn meizonôn l. kai theôrountôn hautous egô gegennêmai Plot.3.8.4 ; hoi en spermati l. plattousi . . ta zôia hoion mikrous tinas kosmous Id.4.3.10 , cf.3.2.16,3.5.7; opp. horos, Id.6.7.4; aphaneis l. tês phuseôs Procl. in R.1.18 K.; technikoi l. ib.142 K., al.

IV. inward debate of the soul (cf. l. hon autê pros hautên hê psuchê diexerchetai Pl.Tht.189e (dialogos in Sph.263e); ho en têi psuchêi, ho esô l. (opp. ho exô l.), Arist.APo.76b25, 27; ho endiathetos, opp. ho prophorikos l., Stoic.2.43, Ph.2.154),

1. thinking, reasoning, tou l. eontos xunou, opp. idia phronêsis, Heraclit. 2; krinai de logôi . . elenchon test by reflection, Parm.1.36; reflection, deliberation (cf. VI.3), edidou logon heôutôi peri tês opsios Hdt.1.209 , cf. 34, S.OT583, D.45.7; mê eidenai . . mête logôi mête ergôi neither by reasoning nor by experience, Anaxag.7; ha dê logôi men kai dianoiai lêpta, opsei d' ou Pl.R.529d , cf. Prm.135e; ho l. ê hê aisthêsis Arist.EN 1149a35 ,al.; autôi monon tôi l. pisteuein (opp. aisthêseis), of Parmenides and his school, Aristocl. ap. Eus.PE14.17: hence logôi or tôi l. in idea, in thought, tôi l. temnein Pl.R.525e ; tôi l. duo estin, achôrista pephukota two in idea, though indistinguishable in fact, Arist. EN1102a30, cf. GC320b14, al.; logôi theôrêta mentally conceived, opp. sensibly perceived, Placit.1.3.5, cf. Demetr.Lac.Herc.1055.20; tous l. theôrêtous chronous Epicur.Ep.1p.19U. ; dia logou th. ch. ib.p.10 U.; logôi katalêptos Phld.Po.5.20 , etc.; ho l. houtô haireei analogy proves, Hdt.2.33; ho l. or l. haireei reasoning convinces, Id.3.45,6.124, cf. Pl.Cri.48c (but, our argument shows, Lg.663d): also c. acc. pers., chratai ho ti min l. haireei as the whim took him, Hdt.1.132; ên mê hêmeas l. hairêi unless we see fit, Id.4.127, cf. Pl.R.607b; later ho hairôn l. ordaining reason, Zeno Stoic.1.50, M.Ant.2.5, cf. 4.24, Arr.Epict. 2.2.20, etc.: coupled or contrasted with other functions, kath' hupnon epeidê logou kai phronêseôs ou meteiche since reason and understanding are in abeyance, Pl.Ti.71d; meta logou te kai epistêmês, opp. aitia automatê, of Nature's processes of production, Id.Sph.265c; to men dê noêsei meta logou perilêpton embraced by thought with reflection, opp. met' aisthêseôs alogou, Id.Ti.28a; to men aei met' alêthous l., opp. to de alogon, ib.51e, cf. 70d, al.; l. echôn hepomenon tôi noein Id.Phlb. 62a ; epistêmê enousa kai orthos l. scientific knowledge and right process of thought, Id.Phd.73a; pas l. kai pasa epistêmê tôn katholou Arist.Metaph.1059b26 ; to logon echon Id.EN1102b15 , 1138b9, al.: in sg. and pl., contrasted by Pl. and Arist. as theory, abstract reasoning with outward experience, sts. with depreciatory emphasis on the former, eis tous l. kataphugonta Pl.Phd.99e ; ton en logois skopoumenon ta onta, opp. ton en ergois (realities), ib.100a; têi aisthêsei mallon tôn l. pisteuteon Arist.GA760b31 ; gnôrimôtera kata ton l., opp. kata tên aisthêsin, Id.Ph.189a4; ek tôn l. dêlon, opp. ek tês epagôgês, Id.Mete.378b20; hê tôn l. pistis, opp. ek tôn ergôn phaneron, Id.Pol.1326a29; hê pistis ou monon epi tês aisthêseôs alla kai epi tou l. Id.Ph.262a19 ; marturei ta gignomena tois l. Id.Pol.1334a6 ; ho men l. tou katholou, hê de aisthêsis tou kata meros explanation, opp. perception, Id.Ph.189a7; esontai tois l. hai praxeis akolouthoi theory, opp. practice, Epicur.Sent.25; in Logic, of discursive reasoning, opp. intuition, Arist.EN1142a26, 1143b1; reasoning in general, ib.1149a26; pas l. kai pasa apodeixis all reasoning and demonstration, Id.Metaph.1063b10; l. kai phronêsin Phld.Mus.p.105 K.; ho l. ê logismos ibid.; to idein ouketi l., alla meizon logou kai pro logou, of mystical vision, opp. reasoning, Plot.6.9.10.--Phrases, kata l. ton eikota by probable reasoning, Pl.Ti.30b; oukoun ton g' eikota l. an echoi Id.Lg.647d ; para logon, opp. kata l., Arist.Rh.Al.1429a29, cf. EN 1167b19; cf. paralogos (but para l. unexpectedly, E.Ba.940).

2. reason as a faculty, ho l. anthrôpous kubernai [Epich.] 256; [thumoeides] tou l. katêkoon Pl.Ti.70a ; [thumos] hupo tou l. anaklêtheis Id.R.440d ; summachon tôi l. ton thumon ib. b; peitharchei tôi l. to tou enkratous Arist. EN 1102b26 ; allo ti para ton l. pephukos, ho machetai tôi l. ib.17; enantiôsis logou pros epithumias Plot.4.7.13(8) ; ou thumos, ouk epithumia, oude l. oude tis noêsis Id.6.9.11 : freq. in Stoic. Philos. of human Reason, opp. phantasia, Zeno Stoic.1.39; opp. phusis, Stoic.2.206; ou sophia oude l. estin en [tois zôiois] ibid.; tois alogois zôiois hôs l. echôn l. mê echousi chrô M.Ant.6.23 ; ho l. koinon pros tous theous Arr.Epict. 1.3.3 ; hoion [eikôn] l. ho en prophorai logou tou en psuchêi, houtô kai autê l. nou Plot.5.1.3 ; to ton l. schein tên oikeian aretên (sc. eudaimonian) Procl.in Ti.3.334 D.; also of the reason which pervades the universe, theios l. [Epich.] 257; ton theion l. kath' Hêrakleiton di' anapnoês spasantes noeroi ginometha S.E.M.7.129 (cf. infr. x).

b. creative reason, adunaton ên logon mê ouk epi panta elthein Plot.3.2.14 ; archê oun l. kai panta l. kai ta ginomena kat' auton Id.3.2.15 ; hoi l. pantes psuchai Id.3.2.18 .

V. continuous statement, narrative (whether fact or fiction), oration, etc. (cf. legô (B) 11.2),

1. fable, Hdt.1.141; Aisôpou logoi Pl.Phd.60d , cf. Arist.Rh.1393b8; ho tou kunos l. X.Mem. 2.7.13 .

2. legend, hiros l. Hdt.2.62 , cf. 47, Pi.P.3.80 (pl.); sunthentes l. E.Ba.297 ; l. theios Pl.Phd.85d ; hieroi l., of Orphic rhapsodies, Suid. S.V. Orpheus.

3. tale, story, allon epeimi l. Xenoph. 7.1 , cf. Th.1.97, etc.; sunthetous l. A.Pr.686 ; spoudên logou urgent tidings, E.Ba.663; allos l. 'another story', Pl.Ap.34e; homologoumenos ho l. estin the story is consistent, Isoc.3.27: pl., histories, en toisi Assurioisi l. Hdt.1.184 , cf. 106, 2.99; so in sg., a historical work, Id.2.123, 6.19,7.152: also in sg., one section of such a work (like later biblos), Id.2.38,6.39, cf. VI.3d; so in pl., en toisi Libukoisi l. Id.2.161 , cf. 1.75,5.22,7.93,213; en tôi prôtôi tôn l. Id.5.36 ; ho prôtos l., of St. Luke's gospel, Act.Ap.1.1: in Pl., opp. muthos, as history to legend, Ti.26e; poiein muthous all' ou logous Phd.61b , cf. Grg.523a (but muthon legein, opp. logôi (argument) diexelthein Prt. 320c , cf. 324d); peri logôn kai muthôn Arist.Pol.1336a30 ; ho l . . . muthos esti Ael.NA4.34 .

4. speech, delivered in court, assembly, etc., chrêsomai têi tou l. taxei tautêi Aeschin.3.57 , cf. Arist.Rh.1358a38; dikanikoi l. Id.EN1181a4 ; tria genê tôn l. tôn rhêtorikôn, sumbouleutikon, dikanikon, epideiktikon Id.Rh.1358b7 ; tôi grapsanti ton l. Thphr. Char.17.8 , cf. logographos 11 ; epitaphios l. funeral oration, Pl.Mx.236b; esp. of the body of a speech, opp. epilogos, Arist.Rh.1420b3; opp. prooimion, ib.1415a12; body of a law, opp. proem, Pl.Lg.723b; spoken, opp. written word, ton tou eidotos l. zônta kai empsuchon hou ho gegrammenos eidôlon ti Id.Phdr.276a ; ho ek tou bibliou rhêtheis [l.] speech read from a roll, ib.243c; published speech, D.C.40.54; rarely of the speeches in Tragedy ( [rhêseis] ), Arist.Po.1450b6,9.

VI. verbal expression or utterance (cf. legô (B) 111), rarely a single word, v. infr. b, never in Gramm. signf. of vocable ( [epos, lexis, onoma, rhêma] ), usu. of a phrase, cf. IX. 3 (the only sense found in Ep.).

a. pl., without Art., talk, ton eterpe logois Il.15.393 ; haimulioi l. Od.1.56 , h.Merc. 317, Hes.Th.890, Op.78,789, Thgn.704, A.R.3.1141; pseudeis L., personified, Hes.Th.229; aphrodisioi l. Semon.7.91 ; aganoisi l. Pi.P. 4.101 ; opson de l. phthoneroisin tales, Id.N.8.21; smikroi l. brief words, S.Aj.1268 (s.v.l.), El.415; dokêsis agnôs logôn bred of talk, Id.OT 681 (lyr.): also in sg., leg' ei soi tôi l. tis hêdonê speak if thou delightest in talking, Id.El.891.

b. sg., expression, phrase, prin eipein esthlon ê kakon l. Id.Ant.1245 , cf. E.Hipp.514; murias hôs eipein logôi Hdt.2.37 ; makros l. rigmarole, Simon.189, Arist.Metaph.1091a8; l. êrema lechtheis diethêke to porrô a whispered message, Plot.4.9.3; heni logôi to sum up, in brief phrase, Pl.Phdr.241e, Phd.65d; concisely, Arist. EN1103b21 (but also, = haplôs, peri pantôn heni l. Id.GC325a1): pl., l. thelktêrioi magic words, E.Hipp.478; rarely of single words, l. eusunthetos hoion to "chronotribein" Arist.Rh.1406a36 ; ouk apekrithê autêi l. answered her not a word, Ev.Matt.15.23.

c. coupled or contrasted with words expressed or understood signifying act, fact, truth, etc., mostly in a depreciatory sense, l. ergou skiê Democr. 145 ; hôsper mikron paida logois m' apatais Thgn.254 ; logôi, opp. ergôi, Democr.82, etc.; nêpioisi ou l. alla xumphorê didaskalos Id.76 ; ergôi kou logôi tekmairomai A.Pr.338 , cf. S.El.59, OC782; logôi men legousi . . ergôi de ouk apodeiknusi Hdt.4.8 ; ou logôn, phasin, hê agorê deitai, chalkôn de Herod.7.49 ; oute l. oute ergôi Lys.9.14 ; logois, opp. psêphôi, Aeschin.2.33; opp. noôi, Hdt.2.100; ou logôi mathôn E.Heracl.5 ; ek logôn, kouphou pragmatos Pl.Lg.935a ; logoisi eis to pithanon peripepemmena ib.886e, cf. Luc.Anach.19; hina mê l. oiêsthe einai, all' eidête tên alêtheian Lycurg.23 , cf. D.30.34; opp. pragma, Arist.Top.146a4; opp. bia, Id.EN1179b29, cf. 1180a5; opp. onta, Pl.Phd.100a; opp. gnôsis, 2 Ep.Cor.11.6; logôi in pretence, Hdt.1.205, Pl.R.361b,376d, Ti.27a, al.; logou heneka merely as a matter of words, allôs heneka l. elegeto Id.Cri.46d ; logou charin, opp. hôs alêthôs, Arist.Pol.1280b8; but also, let us say, for instance, Id.EN1144a33, Plb.10.46.4, Phld. Sign.29, M.Ant.4.32; logou heneka let us suppose, Pl.Tht.191c; heôs logou, mechri l., = Lat. verbo tenus, Plb.10.24.7, Epict.Ench.16: sts. without depreciatory force, the antithesis or parallelism being verbal (cf. 'word and deed'), logôi te kai sthenei S.OC68 ; en te ergôi kai l. Pl.R.382e , cf. D.S.13.101, Ev.Luc.24.19, Act.Ap.7.22, Paus.2.16.2; hosa men logôi eipon, opp. ta erga tôn prachthentôn, Th. 1.22.

2. common talk, report, tradition, hôs l. en thnêtoisin eên Batr. 8 ; l. ek paterôn Alc.71 ; ouk est' etumos l. houtos Stesich.32 ; dixos legetai l. Hdt.3.32 ; l. hup' Aiguptiôn legomenos Id.2.47 ; neon [l.] tidings, S.Ant.1289 (lyr.); ta men autoi hôrômen, ta de logoisi epunthanometha by hearsay, Hdt.2.148: also in pl., en grammasin logoi keimenoi traditions, Pl.Lg.886b.

b. rumour, epi panti l. eptoêsthai Heraclit. 87 ; audaeis l. voice of rumour, B.14.44; peri theôn diêlthen ho l. hoti . . Th.6.46; l. pareichen hôs . . Plb.3.89.3; exêlthen ho l. houtos eis tinas [p. 1059] hoti . . Ev.Jo.21.23, cf. Act.Ap.11.22; fiction, Ev.Matt.28.15.

c. mention, notice, description, ouk huei logou axion ouden worth mentioning, Hdt.4.28, cf. Plb.1.24.8, etc.; erga logou mezô beyond expression, Hdt.2.35; kreisson logou to eidos tês nosou beyond description, Th. 2.50; meizô erga ê hôs tôi l. tis an eipoi D.6.11 .

d. the talk one occasions, repute, mostly in good sense, good report, praise, honour (cf. supr. 1.4), polla pherein eiôthe l. . . ptaismata Thgn.1221 ; l. eslon akousai Pi.I.5(4).13 ; pleona . . l. Odusseos ê pathan Id.N.7.21 ; hina l. se echêi pros anthrôpôn agathos Hdt.7.5 , cf. 9.78; Troian . . hês hapantachou l. whose fame, story fills the world, E.IT517; ouk an ên l. sethen Id.Med.541 : less freq. in bad sense, evil report, l. kakothrous, kakos, S. Aj.138 (anap.), E.Heracl.165: pl., logous psithurous plassôn slanders, S.Aj.148 (anap.).

e. l. esti, echei, katechei, the story goes, c. acc. et inf., est tis l. tan Aretan naiein Simon.58.1 , cf. S.El.417; l. men est' archaios hôs . . Id.Tr.1; l. alone, E.Heracl.35; hôs l. A.Supp.230 , Pl. Phlb.65c, etc.; l. esti Hdt.7.129 ,9.26, al.; l. aien echei S.OC1573 (lyr.); hoson ho l. katechei tradition prevails, Th.1.10: also with a personal subject in the reverse construction. Kleisthenês l. echei tên Puthiên anapeisai has the credit of . . , Hdt.5.66, cf. Pl.Epin.987b, 988b; l. echonta sophias Ep.Col.2.23 , v.supr.1.4.

3. discussion, debate, deliberation, pollos ên en toisi l. Hdt.8.59 ; sunelechthêsan hoi Mêdoi es tôuto kai edidosan sphisi logon, legontes peri tôn katêkontôn Id.1.97 ; hoi Pelasgoi heôutoisi logous edidosan Id.6.138 ; polemôi mallon ê logois ta enklêmata dialuesthai Th.1.140 ; hoi peri tês eirênês l. Aeschin.2.74 ; tois exôthen l. peplêrôke ton l. [Plato] has filled his dialogue with extraneous discussions, Arist.Pol.1264b39; to mêkos tôn l. D.Chr.7.131 ; metabainôn ho l. eis tauton aphiktai our debate, Arist.EN1097a24; ho parôn l. ib.1104a11; theôn hôn nun ho l. esti discussion, Pl.Ap.26b, cf. Tht. 184a, M.Ant.8.32; tôi l. dielthein, diïenai, Pl.Prt.329c, Grg.506a, etc.; ton l. diexelthein conduct the debate, Id.Lg.893a; xunelthein es logon confer, Ar.Eq.1300: freq. in pl., es logous sunelthontes parley, Hdt. 1.82; es l. elthein tini have speech with, ib.86; es l. apikesthai tini Id.2.32 ; dia logôn ienai E.Tr.916 ; emautêi dia l. aphikomên Id.Med.872 ; es l. agein tina X.HG4.1.2 ; koinônein logôn kai dianoias Arist.EN 1170b12 .

b. right of discussion or speech, ê 'pi tôi plêthei l.; S.OC 66; l. aitêsasthai ask leave to speak, Th.3.53; l. didonai X.HG5.2.20 ; ou proutethê sphisin l. kata ton nomon ib.1.7.5; logou tuchein D.18.13 , cf. Arist.EN1095b21, Plb.18.52.1; hoi logou tous doulous aposterountes Arist.Pol.1260b5 ; doulos pephukas, ou metesti soi logou Trag.Adesp.304 ; didontas l. kai dechomenous en tôi merei Luc.Pisc.8 : hence, time allowed for a speech, en tôi emôi l. And.1.26 ,al.; en tôi heautou l. Pl.Ap.34a ; ouk elattô l. anêlôke D.18.9 .

c. dialogue, as a form of philosophical debate, hina mê machômetha en tois l. egô te kai su Pl. Cra.430d ; pros allêlous tous l. poieisthai Id.Prt.348a : hence, dialogue as a form of literature, hoi Sôkratikoi l. Arist.Po.1447b11 , Rh. 1417a20; cf. dialogos.

d. section, division of a dialogue or treatise (cf. v. 3), ho prôtos l. Pl.Prm.127d ; ho prosthen, ho parelthôn l., Id.Phlb.18e, 19b; en tois prôtois l. Arist.PA682a3 ; en tois peri kinêseôs l. in the discussion of motion (i. e. Ph.bk.8), Id.GC318a4; en tôi peri epainou l. Phld.Rh.1.219 ; branch, department, division of a system of philosophy, tên phronêsin ek triôn sunestêkenai l., tôn phusikôn kai tôn êthikôn kai tôn logikôn Chrysipp.Stoic.2.258 .

e. in pl., literature, letters, Pl.Ax.365b, Epin.975d, D.H.Comp.1,21 (but, also in pl., treatises, Plu.2.16c); hoi epi logois eudokimôtatoi Hdn.6.1.4 ; Logoi, personified, AP9.171 (Pall.).

VII. a particular utterance, saying:

1. divine utterance, oracle, Pi.P.4.59; l. mantikoi Pl. Phdr.275b ; ou gar emon erô ton l. Pl.Ap.20e ; ho l. tou theou Apoc.1.2 ,9.

2. proverb, maxim, saying, Pi.N.9.6, A.Th.218; hôd' echei l. ib.225; tond' ekainisen l. hôs . . Critias 21, cf. Pl.R.330a, Ev.Jo.4.37; ho palaios l. Pl.Phdr.240c , cf. Smp.195b, Grg.499c, Lg.757a, 1 Ep.Ti.1.15, Plu.2.1082e, Luc.Alex.9, etc.; to tou logou dê touto Herod.2.45 , cf. D.Chr.66.24, Luc.JTr.3, Alciphr.3.56, etc.: pl., Arist.EN1147a21.

3. assertion, opp. oath, S.OC651; psilôi l. bare word, opp. marturia, D.27.54.

4. express resolution, koinôi l. by common consent, Hdt.1.141,al.; epi l. toiôide, ep' hôi te . . on the following terms, Id.7.158, cf. 9.26; endexasthai ton l. Id.1.60 , cf. 9.5; l. echontes pleonektên a greedy proposal, Id.7.158: freq. in pl., terms, conditions, Id.9.33, etc.

5. word of command, behest, A.Pr.17,40 (both pl.), Pers.363; anthrôpous pithanôterous poiein logôi X.Oec.13.9 ; exebale ta pneumata logôi Ev.Matt.8.16 ; hoi deka l. the ten Commandments, LXX Ex.34.28, Ph.1.496.

VIII. thing spoken of, subject-matter (cf. 111.1 b and 2), l. touton easomen Thgn.1055 ; propepusmenos panta l. the whole matter, Hdt.1.21, cf. 111; ton eonta l. the truth of the matter, ib.95,116; metaschein tou l. to be in the secret, ib.127; mêdeni allôi ton l. touton ei^pêis Id.8.65 ; tis ên l.; S.OT684 ( = pragma, 699); peri tinos l. dielegometha subject, question, Pl.Prt.314c; [to prooimion] deigma tou l. case, Arist.Rh.1415a12, cf. 111.1b; telos de pantos tou l. psêphizontai the end of the matter was that . . , Aeschin.3.124; ouk estexe ton l. Plb.8.12.5 ; ouk esti soi meris oude klêros en tôi l. toutôi Act.Ap.8.21 ; hikanos autôi ho l. Pl.Grg.512c ; ouch hupoleipei [Gorgian] ho l. matter for talk, Arist.Rh.1418a35; mêdena l. hupolipein Isoc.4.146 ; pros logon to the point, apposite, ouden pros l. Pl.Phlb.42e , cf. Prt.344a; ean pros l. ti êi Id.Phlb.33c ; also pros logou Id.Grg.459c (s. v.l.).

2. plot of a narrative or dramatic poem, = muthos, Arist.Po.1455b17, al.

b. in Art, subject of a painting, zôgraphias logoi Philostr.VA 6.10 ; l. tês graphês Id.Im.1.25 .

3. thing talked of, event, meta tous l. toutous LXX 1 Ma.7.33 , cf. Act.Ap.15.6.

IX. expression, utterance, speech regarded formally, to apo [psuchês] rheuma dia tou stomatos ion meta phthongou l., opp. dianoia, Pl.Sph.263e; intelligent utterance, opp. phônê, Arist.Pol.1253a14; l. esti phônê sêmantikê kata sunthêkên Id.Int.16b26 , cf. Diog.Bab.Stoic.3.213; hothen (from the heart) ho l. anapempetai Stoic.2.228 , cf. 244; Protagoras was nicknamed logos, Hsch. ap. Sch.Pl.R.600c, Suid.; logou peithoi Democr.181 : in pl., eloquence, Isoc.3.3,9.11; tên en logois euruthmian Epicur.Sent.Pal.5p.69 v. d. M.; l. akribês precise language, Ar.Nu.130 (pl.), cf. Arist.Rh. 1418b1; tou mê aidomenou l. Pl.R.398d ; hêdusmenos l., of rhythmical language set to music, Arist.Po.1449b25; en panti l. in all manner of utterance, 1 Ep.Cor.1.5; en logois in orations, Arist.Po.1459a13; l. geloioi, aschêmones, ludicrous, improper speech, Id.SE182b15, Pol. 1336b14.

2. of various modes of expression, esp. artistic and literary, en te ôidais kai muthois kai logois Pl.Lg.664a ; en logôi kai en ôidais X.Cyr.1.4.25 , cf. Pl.Lg.835b; prose, opp. poiêsis, Id.R.390a; opp. psilometria, Arist.Po.1448a11; opp. emmetra, ib.1450b15 (pl.); tôi l. touto tôn metrôn (sc. to iambeion) homoiotaton einai Id.Rh.1404a31 ; in full, psiloi l. prose, ib.b33 (but psiloi l., = arguments without diagrams, Pl.Tht.165a); l. pezoi, opp. poiêtikê, D.H.Comp.6; opp. poiêmata, ib.15; koina kai poiêmatôn kai logôn Phld.Po.5.7 ; pezos l. ib.27, al.

b. of the constituents of lyric or dramatic poetry, words, to melos ek triôn . . logou te kai harmonias kai rhuthmou Pl.R.398d ; opp. praxis, Arist.Po.1454a18; dramatic dialogue, opp. ta tou chorou, ib.1449a17.

3. Gramm., phrase, complex term, opp. onoma, Id.SE 165a13; l. onomatôdês noun-phrase, Id.APo.93b30, cf. Rh.1407b27; expression, D.H.Th.2, Demetr.Eloc.92.

b. sentence, complete statement, "anthrôpos manthanei" logon einai phêis . . elachiston te kai prôton Pl.Sph.262c ; l. autotelês A.D.Synt.3.6 , D.T.634.1; rhêthênai logôi to be expressed in a sentence, Pl.Tht.202b; l. echein to be capable of being so expressed, ib.201e, cf. Arist.Rh.1404b26.

c. language, ta tou l. merê parts of speech, Chrysipp.Stoic.2.31, S.E.M.9.350, etc.; ta moria tou l. D.H.Comp.6 ; meros l. D.T.633.26 , A.D.Pron.4.6, al. (but hen meros xod.> logou one word, Id.Synt.340.10, cf. 334.22); peri tôn stoicheiôn tou l., title of work by Chrysippus.

X. the Word or Wisdom of God, personified as his agent in creation and world-government, ho pantodunamos sou l. LXX Wi.18.15 ; ho ek noos phôteinos l. huios theou Corp.Herm.1.6 , cf. Plu.2.376c; l. theou di' hou kateskeuasthê [ho kosmos] Ph.1.162; tês tou theou sophias: hê de estin ho theou l. ib.56; l. theios . . eikôn theou ib.561, cf. 501; ton tomea tôn sumpantôn [theou] l. ib.492; ton angelon hos esti l. ib.122: in NT identified with the person of Christ, en archêi ên ho l. Ev.Jo.1.1 , cf. 14, 1 Ep.Jo.2.7, Apoc.19.13; ho l. tês zôês 1 Ep.Jo.1.1 .

spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 32

...még akkor is, ha Kalliklész nem így gondolja: „Hallgasd hát, mint mondani szokás, a szép szót (kalou logou).
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 31

Ou gar en logou hé baszileia tou theou, all en dünamei, az Egyház nem a gondolatban, hanem a hatalomban van, mondja PÁL.
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 30

Az evangélista és Jézus között vannak elsősorban a szem- és fültanúk (autoptai), aztán "az ige szolgái" (hüpéretai tou logou)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 29

...az Újszövetségben a Logos : „Kezdetben vala az Ige...''
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 28

dolgok (a görög értelemben vett πραγµατα-k)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 27

οὐκ
1Kor 13,5,1
nem
partic.neg.
οὐ, οὐκ, οὐχ
nincsenek

ἄξια * αγγλικά : value (en)
* γαλλικά : valeur (fr)

-----------

In ordinary, non-technical Greek, logos had two overlapping meanings. One meaning referred to an instance of speaking: "sentence, saying, oration"; the other meaning was the antithesis of ergon ("action" or "work"), which was commonplace. Despite the conventional translation as "word", it is not used for a word in the grammatical sense; instead, the term lexis is used. However, both logos and lexis derive from the same verb λέγω. It also means the inward intention underlying the speech act: "hypothesis, thought, grounds for belief or action." [3]

[edit] Use in ancient philosophy

[edit] Heraclitus

The writing of Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BCE) was the first place where the word logos was given special attention in ancient Greek philosophy.[4] Though Heraclitus "quite deliberately plays on the various meanings of logos",[5] there is no compelling reason to suppose that he used it in a special technical sense, significantly different from the way it was used in ordinary Greek of his time.[6]

This LOGOS holds always but humans always prove unable to understand it, both before hearing it and when they have first heard it. For though all things come to be in accordance with this LOGOS, humans are like the inexperienced when they experience such words and deeds as I set out, distinguishing each in accordance with its nature and saying how it is. But other people fail to notice what they do when awake, just as they forget what they do while asleep. (Diels-Kranz 22B1)

For this reason it is necessary to follow what is common. But although the LOGOS is common, most people live as if they had their own private understanding. (Diels-Kranz 22B2)

Listening not to me but to the LOGOS it is wise to agree that all things are one. (Diels-Kranz 22B50)[7]

[edit] Aristotle's rhetorical logos

Aristotle defined logos as argument from reason, one of the three modes of persuasion. The other two modes are pathos (Greek: πάθος), persuasion by means of emotional appeal, and ethos, persuasion through convincing listeners of one's moral competence. An argument based on logos needs to be logical, and in fact the term logic derives from it. Logos normally implies numbers, polls, and other mathematical or scientific data.

Logos has many advantages:

* Data is hard to manipulate, so it is harder to argue against a logos argument.
* Logos makes the speaker look prepared and knowledgeable to the audience, enhancing ethos.

[edit] The Stoics

In Stoic philosophy, which began with Zeno of Citium c. 300 BCE, the logos was the active reason pervading the universe and animating it. It was conceived of as material, and is usually identified with God or Nature. The Stoics also referred to the seminal logos, ("logos spermatikos") or the law of generation in the universe, which was the principle of the active reason working in inanimate matter. Humans, too, each possess a portion of the divine logos.[8]

[edit] Philo of Alexandria

Philo (20 BC - 50 AD), a Hellenized Jew, used the term logos to mean the creative principle. Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea. The logos was necessary, he taught, because God cannot come into contact with matter. He sometimes identified logos as divine wisdom. He taught that the Logos was the image of God, after which the human mind (νοῦς) was made.
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 26

 

Mik azok a kő dolgai? - sajnos ezt sem értem:(

Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 25

 

"és amely az ismeretlen dolgokat felhozza, a tragédia szerint,"- na ezt hogyan értsük?

Előzmény: Jürgen988 (18)
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 24

 

Igen, így sokkal érhetőbbé válik a szöveg.

Előzmény: Jürgen988 (19)
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 23

 

De bizony Spyros is sokszor megpróbálja, már csak az én kedvemért is:)

Előzmény: spiroslyra (17)
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 22
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 21
Előzmény: Jávorfácska (5)
Jávorfácska Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 20

 

Szia Jürgen!

 

Most, hogy jöttél, még jobban örülök, hogy megnyitottam ezt a topikot :)

 

Mint azt már Spyros tudja rólam, én csak egy egyszerű műkedvelő ember vagyok, egy görög irodalmat szívesen, de csak magyar fordításban olvasni tudó ember. Szeretem megosztani az olvasmányélményeimet másokkal, így a bizánci kultúrát érintő olvasmányélményeimet is.

Örülök, hogy ilyen szép hivatást készülsz választani magadnak, hogy a gazdag bizánci kultúra ismerője légy. És örülök mindannak, amivel majd gazdagítani fogod ezt a topikot! Gyere, amilyen gyakran csak tudsz, s tárd elénk a kincseidet!

 

Szvsz a bizánci kultúra varázsát az sem törné meg, ha közismertté és népszerűvé válna!

 

Jávorfácska

 

 

 

Flavius Anastasius konzul diptyhonja. (517;London, Victoria and Albert Museum; diptyhon) A részletek jellegzetesen bizánci pontosságról és gazdagságról szólnak. A konzul timpanonnal díszített tribünön ül, az egyik kezében jogar, a másikkal jelt ad a cirkuszi játékok vagy kocsihajtóverseny megkezdésére.

 

www.sulinet.hu/.../8het/muvtori/muvtori8.html

Előzmény: Jürgen988 (10)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 19
Egy javítás!

"... itt nem értékek a kő dolgai...".

Helyette szerintem jobb:

"... itt nem jelentősek a kő dolgai...".
Előzmény: Jürgen988 (18)
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.13 0 0 18
ΑΝΝΑ ΚΟΜΝΗΝΗ

ΑΛΕΧΙΑΣ

ΣΥΝΤΑΓΜΑ ΣΥΝ ΤΕῼ
ΤΩΝ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΟΝ ΑΝΑΚΤΑ
ΚΥΡΟΝ ΑΛΕΞΙΟΝ ΤΟΝ ΚΟΜΝΗΝΟΝ
ΠΟΝΗΘΕΝ
ΠΑΡΑ ΤΗΣ ΘΥΓΑΤΡΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΚΥΡΙΑΣ ΑΝΝΗΣ
ΤΗΣ ΠΟΡΦΥΡΟΓΕΝΝΗΤΟΥ ΤΗΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ
Ο ΚΑΙ ΕΚΛΗΘΗ ΑΛΕΞΙΑΣ ΠΑΡ`ΑΥΤΗΣ.

Α. Ῥέων ὁ χρόνος ἀκάθεκτα καὶ ἀεί τι κινούμενος παρασύρει καὶ παραφέρει πάντα τὰ ἐν γενέσει καὶ ἐς βυθὸν ἀφανείας καταποντοῖ ὅπου μὲν οὐκ ἄξια λόγου πράγματα, ὅπου δὲ μεγάλα τε καὶ ἄξια μνήμης, καὶ τά τε ἄδηλα φύων κατὰ τὴν τραγῳδίαν καὶ τὰ φανέντα ἀποκρυπτόμενος. [...]

ANNA KOMNÉNÉ

ALEXIASZ

KÖNYV ISTEN SEGEDELMÉVEL
A MAGASSÁGOS ALEXIOSZ KOMNÉNOSZ CSÁSZÁR TETTEIRŐL,
FÁRADTSÁGOS MUNKA
LÁNYÁTÓL, AZ Ő HERCEGNŐJÉTŐL,
BÍBORBANSZÜLETETT ANNA CSÁSZÁRNŐTŐL,
ÉS AZ ALEXIASZ ELMONDATOTT TŐLE [ti. Annától].

I. Folyván az idő ellenállhatatlan és örökké mozgó valami, elragad és elvisz minden teremtett dolgot, és a homály mélységébe taszít, itt nem értékek a kő dolgai (?), ott viszont nagyok, és megvan az emlék értéke is; és amely az ismeretlen dolgokat felhozza, a tragédia szerint, a láthatókat meg elrejti. [...]
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 17

Megkoszonnenk. Turelmet kivanva, legyen sok oromod benne, bar a forditas bizony kemeny munka. Nem is gondolna, aki meg nem probalta.
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 16
Ha lesz időm bemásolok részleteket belőle, vagy az egész eddigi munkámat, de a fordítás rendkívül nehézkes, mert otthon csak egy tankönyvi szószedet van magyarul, egyébként angol és német elektronikus szótárakban keresgélek. Emiatt néha bizonytalan a magyarra fordítás.
Előzmény: spiroslyra (12)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 15

..ezek azok a szemek, melyek ha elsetalsz a kep elott, kovetnek? :)
Előzmény: spiroslyra (13)
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 14


Komnena, Anna
Alexias
Komnena, Anna, Alexias, Regény, elbeszélés, Egyetemes történelem

Szerző(k): Komnena, Anna
Cím: Alexias
Fordító: Passuth László
Kiadás: Budapest, 1943
Kiadó: Officina
Sorozat: Officina Könyvtár
Témák: Regény, elbeszélés
Egyetemes történelem
Tartalom: "Már születésének is legendája volt, holott az első millenium körül még fejedelmi családokban sem törődtek túlsokat a leánygyermekekkel. Atyja, a nagy Komnenos Alexios. [...] Komnena Anna ((1083-1148)) fantáziája színes, majdnem asszonyi. Sohasem találtunk középkori krónikásoknál ennyire meggyőző emberábrázolásokat, mint nála s a középkori asszonyok portréját, - mellyel rendszerint adós maradt a kolostori krónikaíró, - ily pompásan egyetlen egykorú sem vázolta fel."
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 13


Medieval Sourcebook:
Anna Comnena:
The Alexiad

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/annacomnena-alexiad.html
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 12

Megosztanad velunk a forditasod, es a kozben szerzett tapasztalataidat?
spiroslyra Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 11

Anna Comnena Hist. : Alexias : Book p, chapter t, section 1, line 1

ΠΡΟΟΙΜΙΟΝ
Ῥέων ὁ χρόνος ἀκάθεκτα καὶ ἀεί τι κινούμενος
παρασύρει καὶ παραφέρει πάντα τὰ ἐν γενέσει καὶ ἐς βυθὸν
ἀφανείας καταποντοῖ ὅπου μὲν οὐκ ἄξια λόγου πράγματα,
ὅπου δὲ μεγάλα τε καὶ ἄξια μνήμης, καὶ τά τε ἄδηλα φύων
κατὰ τὴν τραγῳδίαν καὶ τὰ φανέντα ἀποκρυπτόμενος. Ἀλλ'
ὅ γε λόγος ὁ τῆς ἱστορίας ἔρυμα καρτερώτατον γίνεται τῷ τοῦ
χρόνου ῥεύματι καὶ ἵστησι τρόπον τινὰ τὴν ἀκάθεκτον τού-
του ῥοὴν καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῷ γινόμενα πάντα, ὁπόσα ὑπερ-
είληφε, ξυνέχει καὶ περισφίγγει καὶ οὐκ ἐᾷ διολισθαίνειν
εἰς λήθης βυθούς. Ταῦτα δὲ διεγνωκυῖα ἐγὼ Ἄννα,
θυγάτηρ μὲν τῶν βασιλέων Ἀλεξίου καὶ Εἰρήνης, πορφύρας
τιθήνημά τε καὶ γέννημα, οὐ γραμμάτων οὐκ ἄμοιρος, ἀλλὰ
καὶ τὸ Ἑλληνίζειν ἐς ἄκρον ἐσπουδακυῖα καὶ ῥητορικῆς οὐκ
ἀμελετήτως ἔχουσα καὶ τὰς Ἀριστοτελικὰς τέχνας εὖ ἀνα-
λεξαμένη καὶ τοὺς Πλάτωνος διαλόγους καὶ τὸν νοῦν ἀπὸ
τῆς τετρακτύος τῶν μαθημάτων πυκάσασα (δεῖ γὰρ ἐξορ-
χεῖσθαι ταῦτα, καὶ οὐ περιαυτολογία τὸ πρᾶγμα, ὅσα ἡ
φύσις καὶ ἡ περὶ τὰς ἐπιστήμας σπουδὴ δέδωκε καὶ ὁ Θεὸς
ἄνωθεν ἐπεβράβευσε καὶ ὁ καιρὸς συνεισήνεγκε) βούλομαι
διὰ τῆσδέ μου τῆς γραφῆς τὰς πράξεις ἀφηγήσασθαι τοὐ-
μοῦ πατρὸς οὐκ ἀξίας σιγῇ παραδοθῆναι οὐδὲ τῷ ῥεύματι
τοῦ χρόνου παρασυρῆναι καθάπερ εἰς πέλαγος ἀμνημοσύνης,
ὅσας τε τῶν σκήπτρων ἐπειλημμένος κατεπράξατο καὶ
ὅσας πρὸ τοῦ διαδήματος ἔδρασεν ἑτέροις βασιλεῦσιν ὑπη-
ρετούμενος.


ANNA COMNENA Hist.
(A.D. 11­12: Constantinopolitana)


Alexias, ed. B. Leib, Anna Comnène. Alexiade, 3 vols.
Paris: Les Belles Lettres, 1:1937
Jürgen988 Creative Commons License 2008.09.12 0 0 10
Sziasztok!

Mivel bizantinológiával akarok majd foglalkozni, elkezdtem érdeklődni a bizánci irodalom, azon belül is a történetírás iránt. Kedvtelésből és saját képességeim tesztelgetéséből elkezdtem lefordítani Anna Komnéné Alexiasz c. művét.

Nagyon jó ötlet ez a topik, mivel szerintem Bizánc alaptalanul van elhanyagolva Magyarországon, bár talán pont ez adja varázsát.

Ha kedveled azért, ha nem azért nyomj egy lájkot a Fórumért!