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najahuha
 2006-05-17 22:10:01
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15
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All in all a lot of information that needs to be dissected very carefully (Richard has some good points about nonexistence of so called 'Turkic markers') and a last thing we need is to jump to conclusions although Kveldulf made some very interesting comments and good points as well. It does appear also that Slavic genes are of minor importance in balkanic countries such as Macedonia and I would certainly assume Serbia and even more so Bulgaria although I seem not to be able to find data on those.
Also I am curious as far as how would the results appear if the given populations would be taken into account as a combination of total markers and as such compared to other populations and who would turn out related to who. All in all nice and complex topic.
Bellow method is mathematically superior and I believe it to be the best measure of genetic similarity since it does go into complete and all inclusive detail with including the individual percentage similarities (taking the smaller one into account of course) within each marker and all markers have to be taken into account since it is all the given markers that compose a given population.
Albanians and Greeks
Population n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------Eu1-Eu3-Eu4-Eu6-Eu7-Eu8-Eu9-Eu10-Eu11....-Eu18-Eu19-
Albanian--51------------2.0-21.6------19.6------23.5-4.0---2.0------17.6--9.8
Greek-----76------------1.3-22.4-1.3--7.9-------21.0-1.3---2.6------27.6-11.8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------1.3-21.6------7.9-------21----1.3--2.0------17.6-9.8
1.3+21.6+7.9+21+1.3+2.0+17.6+9.8 = 82.5%
Albanian percentage sequence appear to be genetically very close to that of the Greeks thus making these two populations closely related for whatever that might mean as there also appears to be a close relation between Albanians and Greeks with Lebanese (all three were ancient Hellenic regions, first Hellenistic Illyrian-closely related to Proto-hellenic Brygians, second Hellas, third Cretan Philistines).
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percentage sequence similarity with Albanians
Greek...........82.5%
Macedon......73.4%
Lebanese.....70.4%
Syrian...........64.8%
Calabrian......60.7%
Turkish.........60.6%
Czech and
Slovakian.....56.1%
Croatian.......53.5%
Georgian......50.9%
Italian............47.6%
Hungarian....47.3%
Polish............43%
Udmurt..........37.1%
Saami...........36.2%
Ukrainian......32%
Mari..............18.1%
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percentage sequence similarity with Greeks
Albanian.......82.5%
Lebanese.....69.2%
Calabrian......68.6%
Czech and
Slovakian......62.3%
Macedon......61%
Georgian......60.8%
Turkish.........58.6%
C.& N. Italian.58.1%
Syrian..........57.6%
Andalusian...52.1%
Hungarian....47.6%
Croatian.......43.8%
Polish...........39.7%
Udmurt.........36.4%
Saami...........24.5%
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percentage sequence similarity with Central and Northern Italians
Catalan..........80.7%
Dutch.............75.7%
French...........75.2%
Andalusian....74.3%
Fr.Basque......66.5%
Sp.Basque.....66.2%
German..........64%
Greeks...........58.1%
Calabrian........56.4%
Albanians.......47.6%
Sardinian.......41.9%
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percentage sequence similarity with Macedonians
Albanians........73.4%
Croatian.........71.4%
Polish.............68.6%
Hungarian.......67.2%
Ukrainian........65%
Greeks...........61%
Lebanese.......54.3%
Turkish..........48.1%
Georgian........36.1%
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percentage sequence similarity with Croatians (judging by the results more than likely from Pannonia or North Croatia)
Macedon........71.4%
Polish............66.8%
Czech and
Slovakian.......61.7%
Ukrainian.......60.2%
German.........60.2%
Albanian........53.5%
Hungarian......53.2%
Greeks..........43.8%
Turkish..........32%
C.& N. Italian..31.2%
Georgian........26.7%
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percentage sequence similarity with Turks
Lebanese............68.2%
Georgian.............61.1%
Albanians............60.6%
Greeks...............58.6%
Syrian................48.1%
Macedonians.......48.1%
C.& N. Italian.......36.5%
Croatians............32%
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percentage sequence similarity with Lebanese
Albanians.....70.4%
Greeks.........69.2%
Turks..........68.2%
Syrian.........60.4%
Macedons....54.3%
Georgian......51.3%
......
to simplify
Conclusion:
First I firmly believe that any given population should be judged as a combination of all the genetic markers since it is all these markers that make up a given population.
Such a combination of a given population should be compared using shpata's method (there you go shpata you became part of illyria forum genetics terminology ) to another population.
Albanians
Albanians, genetically speaking, have a very similar sequence of markers with Greeks thus making these two populations mutually genetically related. First five nations related to Albanians (Greek, Macedonians, Lebanese, Syrian, Calabrian, Turkish) can all be explained through the Greek factor within all of them (Many Macedonian Slavs are racially/culturally similar to Greeks, Lebanese are at liest partly Philistines, Syria had a strong Greek presence, Calabrians are mainly remnants of Magna Graecia population while Anatolian Turks are mainly Turmenized Greeks). Albanians are more than likely descended from Hellenistic Illyrians (either the same element or very closely related with older Proto-hellenic Brygians in the same region while there was also direct Greek colonisation here in southern Illyria) whose old Hellenic language has changed through history (under different influences) to become what it is today.
Greeks
Most of the top nations related genetically to Greeks can be explained historically as well. Albanian have been explained already, as have Lebanese, Calabrians, Macedonians, Turks, Syrians while there is certainly relation to some extent at liest with Italians.
ps: I still would want to inspect data for Serbs (also descende in the most part from slavized hellenistic phrygo-illyrians) and Bulgarians (descended in the most part from slavized byzantine greeks and phrygo-thracians) so I can view similarities (which I am preety sure will place both populations within close genetic relation with south balkan/haimos populations such as albanians and greeks).
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http://pub18.ezboard.com/bbalkans |
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kilenctizenegy
2004-12-15 02:07:08
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11
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"elöbb utóbb a görög és szerb nacionalizmus közé szorult makedónia egyfajta föderációra lép bulgáriával"
Annál is inkább, mert a könyörtelen demográfiai folyamatok következtében egy generáción belül albán többségűvé válik és abban a pillanatban egyesül Koszovóval. A szláv entitás előre fog menekülni és felosztja az országot. Az életképtelen maradék-Macedónia csatlakozni fog Bulgáriához, és ezzel befejeződik a nemzetállamok kialakulása a Dél-Balkánon is. |
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A hozzászólás:
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kavkaz
2004-02-14 20:29:41
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10
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| Pontosabban a makedón nyelv olyan nyelvjárása a bolgár(szláv) nyelvnek, mint a magyarnak a csángó. Jugoszlávia idején erös volt a szerbhorvátosítási törekvés, de a makedón nyelv bolgár jellegét ez sem tudta feledtetni. Nem véletlen, hogy a bolgárok amikor csak alkalom adódott bekebelezték makedóniát. És az is lehet, hogy elöbb utóbb a görög és szerb nacionalizmus közé szorult makedónia egyfajta föderációra lép bulgáriával. |
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Előzmény:
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ftonyo
2004-02-13 19:41:31
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9
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"Koszi. Akkor mar "csak" :-) az erdeklene, hogy a terkepen jelolt Romania teruleten bolgarok-macedonok eltek mar akkortajt is, vagy volt valami kulonallo nepcsoport;"
Nem, egyszerűen csak szlávok - a bolgárok a nevüket az őket leigázó, majd elszlávosodó török bolgároktól vették, a macedón "nép" pedig újkori talűálmány - a bolgárok nevezték el igy őket, hogy a szerbek ne formáljanak jogot a területre a nagy 19. század végi osztozkodásban!
" illetve ez a Romania akkor vegul is csak a terkepen letezett, vagy onallo kozigazgatasi egysegkent is (mar ha ez egyaltalan tudhato)?"
Max. a térképkészitő fantáziájában! Itt a bizáci korban Makedonia és Thrakia thermák voltak.
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Ha kedveled azért, ha nem azért nyomj egy lájkot a Fórumért!
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